October 09, 2006 | Comments: (0)
Are IT Recruiters Worthless? (Part 4)
I've gotten so much good email on this topic that's it's sparking another post. I thought some of you might like to see how the stats are adding up in my email. I've gotten 187 emails on this topic, and of them, the opinions stated are as follows:
I'm expressing what's on every DBA's mind -- 63%
I'm getting what I give and need to treat recruiters with more respect -- 7%
I'm not being hard enough on recruiters because they're all idiots -- 11%
I'm not taking into account that the good recruiters have the same fight we do -- 1%
My stories are nothing compared to what the readers have faced -- 19%
I'm a complete moron for thinking I can showing up to a recruiter dressed in anything other than interview attire -- 4%
I should never jump through a recruiter's hoops -- 2%
And my absolute favorite...
I had one reader speculate on how many johns my mother had to service before giving birth to a moron like me.
Now, one thing you'll notice is that all those add up to more than 100%, and that's just because some expressed more than one opinion. And I didn't put all the opinions in there either, just the more interesting ones.
Anyhow... I do think it's interesting that so many of you agree with me. I've always wondered what others really thought about the recruiting process or if it was just me who couldn't stand it. And for those of you who don't agree, especially those of you who think I'm getting what I give, I have only this to say.
I'm sure that most of us didn't go into this process hating it, and being tired of recruiters. We've had it beaten into us. It's hard to hide your contempt for a situation when you spend so much of your time meeting different recruiters to discuss a job that doesn't exist, or is out of your skill set. I'm also sure that most of us didn't go into this hating to have another FNG recruiter tell us how to run our business. Sure, we represent their company in the loosest way possible, but like I've said before; they just started recruiting, and we've been getting tech jobs for a long time before they came along and will continue to do so long after they go back to retail. So I don't think it's arrogance or complacency that drives a lot of us to be fed up. It's just being fed up. We're tired of getting the run around. We're tired of being dragged all over town for jobs that don't exist. We're tired of being sent on jobs that have nothing to do with us. We're tired of answering 50 questions that are clearly stated in our resumes. The list goes on and on.
What I'm trying to say is, instead of calling me arrogant, why don't you try to see that we've all just come to the end of our rope. We can't stand it anymore. IT recruiters have enjoyed the same freedom that the cert prep folks have. They've taken advantage of an unstable market, and pushed a bunch of untrained recruiters at us who know far less about IT than we do. One recruiter wrote me and said that he was an expert in finding a job and we needed to listen to him. Well, being given a lot of bogus info on HR type questions doesn't make you an expert in IT recruiting, or even in landing a job. And being fed up with it doesn't make us arrogant.
Unfortunately I don't see a way around the process. HR certainly isn't the answer. If you think recruiters are bad, don't even get me started on HR. And I believe I said that I have found a coupld really good ones in my time. There are 2 or 3 that I use again and again because they know IT inside and out, and they know the kinds of questions to ask when they're looking at new resumes. The whole field isn't a wash, it's just the majority. But isn't that the problem with even the DBA field? How many DBAs are actually worth their certs? Like I said before, I've interviewed more DBAs than I can count, and most of them, even with 10+ yrs in the field don't even know the basics. It's pathetic. So why should I expect more from recruiters? I guess I shouldn't. I should just take my lumps and get through the process as best I can.
Anyway guys, unless something comes up, this'll be my last post on this for a while. I am going to go back over the last posts and see if there's anything I said I'd come back to and didn't, but I think we can call this topic more or less wrapped up for now.
Any final comments?
Posted by Sean McCown on October 9, 2006 11:30 AM
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I totally agree with what you are saying about recruiters and HR departments.
The problem is if you take the process personally rather than just another part of your job, you will end up missing out on the really good jobs. You are selling a product (yourself). Would you buy something if the box was crumpled? How about if the information on the back of the box was misleading or hard to understand? These are the common complaints I hear from recruiters and HR departments (and my wife). The rare person that can focus both on their technology and business skills will always get the best jobs.
Client companies have found an illegal way to screen candidates based on age through the use and abuse of 3rd party IT recruiters...
Age discrimination runs rampant through many IT recruiters and their client companies. Is this why there seem to be few older IT workers in IT tech Support? Here in Cincinnati, OH age discrimination occurs daily where younger IT consultants are often given preference for IT contracting jobs over older, more experienced IT workers based in part, on age of the applicant.
I am in excellent health at age 48, look much younger than my actual age, in good finanacial shape, and having problems for the past year in finding a decent IT tech support job due to lack of jobs availability because IT recruiters skip over my 2 page resume due to my age. I have great job refs, up to date on coursework, certs, college degrees and have work experience to satisfy almost any client, but I am told by IT recruiters that they are looking for "younger" candidates. I am often described as "over qualified" (double talk for age) for positions that I apply. Wages were never brought up as a concern by IT recruiters since I am willing to work at "market" rates.
The use of 3rd party IT recruiters is supposed to enable client companies to make better management decisions, however the reverse is true... IT recruiters sometimes screen candidates based on illegal age requirements that open the IT recruiter and client companies to civil lawsuits.
IT recruiters in this area pre-screen resumes based on applicant age and experience. I have talked to several IT recruiters who admit that they are looking for younger "fresh" talent that will get the job done because the client company has specified they only want younger contract workers. There seems to be a employer bias in this area that older workers do not work as quickly as younger workers, despite older workers possibly having more specific work experience.
This client company requirement for "younger workers" amounts to simple age discrimination that is hard to prove because it is the 3rd party IT recruiter illegally screening the candidates based on age, not the client company. Job applicants are not allowed to see job requisition orders from client companies where recruiter notes sometimes detail age requirements.
Most 3rd party IT recruiters are spineless and will not stand up to a client's illegal resume screening requirements. Recruiters are often more concerned with satisfying the client's needs and earn more bucks rather than take an ethical route to express concern about illegal hiring practices based on age.
There are federal laws supposed to protect against this illegal practice of hiring based on age, but client companies deny responsibility saying it is a recruiter problem and the labor hiring laws are seldom enforced by government officials.
Posted by: questor at October 9, 2006 05:27 PMIn reply to the title:
Yes. Oh yes. Sooo worthless... But all the reasons why have been well covered in the four parts of this series, so I wan't go into it.
But Sean, where are the idiotic questions the recruiters gave you to prepare for your interview that you promised us back in the first part??? I was really looking forward to those for their humour value... :)
Posted by: Michael at October 17, 2006 07:17 AMI'm really sorry you guys get so much grief from recruiters. I really am. However, I am no sorrier for the grief you get from recruiters than I am for the level of crap I get from applicants. Applicants who can't prepare a resume, or even understand what a resume is supposed to do - applicants who really are arrogant, and obnoxious, and because I haven't read the latest tech article on the tiny piece of the industry that they understand, immediately assume that I'm an idiot.
Fortunately enough, I work in a niche market for an organization that has a pretty high fee base -so it is a waste of the applicants, the clients, and our time if we were to send our people anywhere where there wasn't an extremely high chance (80%) or better of that candidate getting the job. Initial interviews are conducted via phone (generally two to three), and if there continues to be an interest on both sides after those conversations, we move to a face-2-face.
Recruiters that don't know what they're doing make my job difficult, as they tend to make contact with a lot of you, and by the time I get to speak with you, your opinion is jaded. However, in my opinion, you have to take some responsibility for the bad recruiter you determined you would work with. You should have interview questions for your recruiter - after all, they are assisting you in one of the most important areas of your life. In addition, don't look to your recruiter to your only source for a position. Although, I, like most of the other professional recruiters I know, will not work with someone who's working with another recruiter, I do expect that you're looking on your own for roles. Also, if you got some inside tip on somebody hiring at an organization you want to work at, but don't know how to approach them, tell your recruiter. Let them do the leg work as to who the hiring manager is, and the best way to get your credentials in front of them.
Lastly, I would offer a bit of advice to the guy who's being discriminated against because of his age, apparently, before they even see him: If your high school is listed remove it. If you've listed the year that you got some credential that was several years ago, remove it, or don't list the years you got any of your credentials. Unless you have experience that is way beyond your peers, you don't need to list any position you held prior to ten years ago. In short, remove those things that date you. It might be wise to remove anything that makes you look less than current. Perhaps you can have your resume professionally done, but please interview those organizations as well, as some of them aren't the best either.
Alright, then. That's my rant. I wish gainful, productive employment to you all.
Kind Regards,
Kim
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