Well Said Bob,

I can't speak to where Stuck really fit on your questions - but having "grown up" professionally first in Aerospace on the engineering side, I well remember the days of much more colorful, direct language. But to be fair to those days, even then there was a difference between the folks who used that language and style to solve a problem, and those who just vented and were egotists. I knew many competent but loud managers who actually could answer your questions at the end properly, but for whom the company culture of the day probably wouldn't have "heard" them if they spoke softly per se...

I also knew (and know) plenty of folks who speak softer, but still can't make the distinction you're driving at, and haven't learned the message at the bottom - being "right" and alone isn't a good day at the office - the job is influence and the success of the team, and if you aren't able to help, "I told you so" won't get you a cup of coffee at starbucks, right?

Thanks for the great post

Jonathan

Often 'speaking your mind in a professional fashion' means telling someone that their idea stinks and that they stink too for suggesting it. You can get away with the first part in most companies, but not the second part. We are all incompetent sometimes. Hopefully we learn from our mistakes.

I remember 'colorful' managers too. They generated great loyalty from their workers but in today's business climate we need people to work smart as well as work hard and managers who feel they are the only ones who can come up with new ideas are the real dinosaurs these days.

I've worked for the type. There are many versions of the hardnosed, foul-mouthed, bastard-from-hell bosses. Some of them are actually hiding their insecurity behind bluster. Whatever the reason for it, you can sometimes have a fair working relationship with them if you can get past the crap and find that they are actually competent.

The bosses that are truly intolerable are the ones that put up the shield of bluster to hide their incompetence. If you find yourself with one of these you should run -not walk- the nearest headhunter.

About speaking one's mind... sometimes it is best to keep one's mouth shut. The adage my dad gave to me about driving fits this situation too, "It's not who is right that counts, it's who is left." Being right is little comfort when daddy doesn't have a job and the bills keep rolling in.

What I've seen most often with people that insist on "speaking their mind" is that they do it with so little tact. Apologies can cover up their insulting tone but only the first couple of dozen times - after that they become associated with a smelly part of a horse's anatomy.

Not to completely side with the dinosaurs ... but there's something to be said for people who did not suffer fools, gave their unedited opinions and rallied the troops towards a common cause. Fast forward 25 years and we are hogtied by an inability to be open, giving more weight to the legal system than organizational objectives in everything we do, and a general lack of commitment on everyone's part. Were the 80's so long ago?

Oh, to go back to a time when going to a stip bar for lunch was not cause for termination. Thanks for the memories Stuck!

Chris.

Bob--

You drew a powerful distinction between style and abuse.

I have had plenty of bosses who thought louder was the same as "more clear". I have had one or two who were excitable, but they were never abusive or insulting--and they were quite successful. Some bosses have been quietly competent, and some disappeared into their shyness.

The bottom line: there's room for different styles of management. There is not a place for abusive or demeaning actions in any workplace...or recreational place, for that matter. I refuse to believe it is necessary to do any sort of corrective management anywhere but in the privacy of the manager's office, even when it is a coaching opportunity, not a dressing down!

The employee/employer leverage is always a dynamic one, and if the employer uses any leverage unfairly--a hallmark of the abusive sort--they can count on losing people by the dozens once that leverage situation changes.

Thanks for the clear delineation between management style and abusive behavior, Bob!

Rick

Here's hoping that the old screamer style STAYS stuck in the 80's and doesn't come back into fashion. I've never thought much of histrionics and have only used a raised voice for management purposes on rare occasions when attention and focus was needed and other methods would not work.
If you have little to say, saying it louder doesn't increase its value. Screaming it may distract from the fact that you have no content, but people are, hopefully, smart enough to see through the mess.
A good post as usual.

I agree that abusive behavior has no place in a business, but I think your justification is completely backwards. In your list of four traits to rank, I think the *vast* majority of jobs in the world do not require 1-3. Even in IT, I would trade a lot our expensive/creative people for a simple minded person who could just review inventory, or track new hires and terminations.

Not everybody is in a situation where they should try to attract and retain the best employees out there. Sometimes with the budget you have, the best you can hope for is a staff full of mediocre employees who will do simple tasks cheaply when you're willing to drive them to perform.

There are a lot of nearly useless people in this world, and they need to work somewhere.

>There are a lot of nearly useless people in this world, and they need to work somewhere.

I think Zach has given us the Catbert Variant of Sturgeon's Law.

I recently read a review of a book called "No Yelling: The Nine Secrets of Marine Corps Leadership You Must Know to Win in Business" by Wally Adamchik, a former Marine. It's gotten a lot of positive comments and, with all of the real world examples in it, it's a lot more useful than most of the leadership crap out there.

While there are a number of different leadership styles, it strikes me that the "yeller" approach is not the most effective at getting the job done. Some people react strongly to it, either shutting down or pushing back. Whether you are leading an IT project or infantrymen in Iraq, the best leadership style is one that fits the audience. Sure, you can get rid of someone who doesn't conform to your leadership style, but how are you going to get the project done on time when you're already 50% done? A leadership style that alienates people and doesn't consider each person's unique qualities, is not going to make the best use of each employee. It doesn't matter if the employee is mediocre or a genius, a leadership style that helps them get their job contributes to the bottom line. A leadership style that impedes their ability to work makes it harder to get the job done.

My wife is a teacher and part of her teaching philosophy is that every child can be taught. You just need to find an approach that fits the child. The same thing applies to leading and managing employees. Unfortunately, some managers have no leadership skills.