What a bunch of BS. These corporations lie lie through their noses. Shortage of Tech talent is amyth created by these morons. They don't want to pay good salaries to American workers. Why would they when they can get away paying slave wages to H-1b coolies from India.

It is good that this debate has brought the real secrets about the H-1b program out into the open so that more Americans become aware about this mischief. A substantial portion of these visas are eaten up by Indian outsourcing companies.
These Indian outsourcing companies not only pay slave wages to these h1-b employees, they abuse them all over.
Companies like TCS, Infosys and Wipro are bringing in people from India and paying them almost 20 -25% below market rates. These employees are not allowed to stay in USA for more than a few years so that they can be rotated
back to India for a fresh batch. In this way more and more employees are getting on site training and more work is getting sent back to india.
Hardly any of these H-1b are given chance to apply for greencards and become US residents. This is a double whammy. It drives down wages for all local US citizens and also prevents these H1-bs to integrate into the American society and contribute more to the American system. In the mean time students are not willing to take up
computer science or Engineering because of these low wages that these people have forced.
There are a few Indian collegues in my company from this Indian outsourcer Satyam. They are miserable. They told me that if they complain about low wages or anything for that matter, Satyam threatens them that they will be deported back to India and some one else will be sent to replace them. So these poor souls sit quietly and take all the c*ap.
As rightly pointed out by Sen Grassley and Durbin, the abuses on another temporary visa called L1 visa are even more outrageous and illegal. Companies like TCS are even gobbling up taxes on wages earned by their L1 employees
to themselves. Wish you or me can get a tax holiday ??. Sorry, you only can do this if you are a L-1b. Here are more details about this.
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/021506-tata-lawsuit.html?fsrc=rss-outsourcing

These companies have no oversight and right now are abusing and exploiting every loophole in the books.Recently The senator from Maine Susan collins wrote to the Immigration department saying that the investigations by a Maine Newspaper found that some of these Indian companies are opening a namesake office in Maine so that they can put this address in their H-1b applications. The reason being that prevailing wages are lower in Maine than in states like California or Texas. Once thet H-1b visas are approved, these employees are then posted to positions in other states. The investigative journalist went to some of the bogus locations given as addresses and found that there was no one there and there was just a mail forwarding service there. There was not even a single
employee there. The list of abuses goes on and on.

There was a video on YouTube which showed how memebers of the borporate board were discussing startegy about how they can get away nor hiring Americans and hire only H1-b workers.
Folks it is time to put an end to this nonsense ust like we killed the Amnesty bill. The H-1b program is ripe for termination.

The minimum expectation I have of my Senators is to produce an Immigration Process which GUARANTEES EEO, Equal Employment Opportunity… the law of the land.

The Senators (and AILA who write this stuff for their own personal And commercial profit) have failed miserably in this endeavor as demonstrated in the “Fake Job Ads” video on YouTube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

The Immigration Bill continues to discriminates against those whose National Origin = USA and Age > 40.

AMERICAN CIVIL RIGHTS INSTITUTE
National Leaders of American Civil Rights Institute Sign Open Letter to Congress
http://www.acri.org/pr_060707.htm
Notice the word “Merit”… Merit = Education Level + Experience.
Now, remember that Merit System in the Senate Immigration Bill?
That so called Merit System awards points for Age less than 40.
Well, that is not a “Merit System”… that is Institutionalized Age Discrimination.

FRONTPAGE MAGAZINE:
The Preferences Are Coming; Twelve Million of Them
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=28738

COMMENTARY FROM A GOVERNMENT LCA OFFICE EMPLOYEE:
This article’s URL is http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=199905
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>None at all commented on Jun 19, 2007
> For 30 years I worked in the labor certification program at the
state level. Our job was to assist the employer in making a good faith effort to recruit and hire a US worker. It did not take me long to realize how crooked most immigration attorneys were. They earned big fees to help employers get out of admitting that there was a US worker available who was qualified. The job descriptions they whipped up often did not exist or carried such strange requirements that no American would qualify. They would advertise in publications that no one truly desirous of locating an American worker would advertise in. The Department of Labor, which ruled on the quality of the advertising usually paid no attention to any of the obvious misrepresentations in the certification applications and its requirements and conditions. They rarely challenged any of the rejections of US workers. There were many occasions when employers would reject over one hundred US workers who applied for a job by stating that the workers were not qualified, failed to show up for appointments, etc., etc. On rare occasions, when the rejected US workers were contacted and provided information that contradicted the employer (his attorney, actually), the employer would withdraw the application and re-file it, hoping for a better set of circumstances later. Many attorneys actually represent the alien, who pays for the employer’s advertising and expenses. Sometimes they have even interviewed the US workers who were referred to the job they hold. The alien labor certification system is corrupt from the top to the bottom, even more so now that the applications are reviewed by a computer. It is time for people to realize that program, and other immigration programs being proposed, are just part of an overall scheme to load up our country with low- and lesser skilled workers. I have worked with prior immigration programs where aliens had to document their past work experience here, their qualifications, and their attachment to the labor market. I have never seen so much fraud. New programs will just make more attorneys and document fraudsters richer and richer. Our country is selling out the middle class, and from what I can see, it is too late for us to survive the onslaught. We will be a third world country in no time.

> “None at all” commented on Jun 20, 2007 10:30:36 PM
/> As I indicated in an earlier post, I worked in the labor certification program in the state labor office in California for 30 years. Employers who advertised for US workers prior to filing the alien’s labor certification application would file the application with a request that required advertising be waived based on the fact that they had advertised already and had found no qualified workers. The Department of Labor would accept this statement despite the fact that the alien showed no special skills. For example, an employer advertised for a Market Research Analyst, stating that a BS degree in business was required. The recruitment results would state that no qualified US worker applied. This was a lie. There were always US workers available with business degrees, even with foreign language ability. Another misrepresentation is that an ordinary business degree does not equip one to do true market research work. DOL would not question this, not the fact that the alien had only a basic degree. Often the jobs would be in small businesses where the alien would be working for a company that had only a handful of employees. When we had the opportunity to really study the job offer and the business we would often find that the alien was the owner of the company, or a relative, or maybe had even paid the employer to offer him the job. I remember studying one attorney who was savvy enough to locate failing businesses whom he contacted with an offer to locate an alien with money who would bail out the company in exchange for a green card for the alien. The attorney took a 30K share for his effort. How about the half dozen heating companies in the Los Angeles area who found just the right aliens to install furnaces in residences. The job duties were that the alien would dismantle coal and wood burning furnaces in LA area homes and change them into gas furnaces. What? Coal and wood furnaces in LA? These were totally bogus jobs. They did not exist.

> Looking at a different aspect, I often would see the resumes of US
workers (a US/American worker is a citizen or permanent resident
alien) who had applied for the job through a post office box that was controlled by the labor department staff who would then forward the applications to the employers. That’s where the attorneys earned their money - ingeniously rejecting American workers. It was heartbreaking to read some of those resumes. The American workers thought they were really applying for a job. They would pour their hearts out to the employer, pleading for a chance at the job, showing how qualified they were and how they would be a benefit to the company. Read 20 or 30 or up to a hundred of those resumes and then process the application knowing that the alien would get the nod from the Department of Labor who would believe the employer (read attorney) before believing US workers. It was sickening. Attorneys had all sorts of tricks on how to dump US workers while making DOL think they were actually making a good faith recruitment effort. I remember seeing a letter from an attorney that was accidentally submitted to the state in an application for certification. The letter advised the employer that the regulations required that he “post” the job notice on his premises so that others at the site could see that .an opening was available. The employer, however, could get around that requirement by poking a pin through the top of the notice, and submitting the original notice with the hole in it as proof that the job was posted. That attorney got his knuckles rapped - but I’m sure that he was not the only one doing it.

> Although the recruitment factor was not involved with the temporary
applications, many of these jobs are bogus too, and they generally lead to a permanent labor certification application, with a green card at the end of the process. There have been a number of incidents of attorneys and immigration consultants prosecuted and convicted for labor certification fraud and misrepresentation. You can find them on Google, using key words. Even the US DOL’s Inspector General’s site mentions a few, but information on this is almost always kept secret.

> This program is hopeless. I have tried to call much of this to the
attention of my senators and Department of Labor officials, to no avail. I hate to use the word conspiracy - but there is a conspiracy to pack this country with aliens, and the labor certification program is doing its part.

T H E E N D

The Programmers Guild has presented several candidates, from new CS MS grads to BS, certified experienced grads. So far none have been offered jobs. Microsoft gets thousands of resumes per week, and not hires about 1%. Microsoft does not recruit at most campuses - it does not recruit at any of the 23 California State University campuses.

If there is a "dramatic decline in the number of native born computer science graduates," what does Microsoft blame that on? Could it be they see Micorosoft shipping work to India, declining wages, and Congress forcing Americans to compete with L-1 holders earning their foreign wages of $20k, while working in the U.S.?

In India the tech companies hire general ed grads and give them intensive training for 3 months to become software developers. Until U.S. companies start doing that, they should not be given H-1b workers.

What this boils down to is the belief that America can't produce enough smart guys to keep the tech companies in business. Is this really a problem for immigration, or a problem in our own education system? OR... maybe the big tech companies just aren't meeting the requirements of the employable American... like great pay, benefits, retirement, etc. Maybe, just maybe, the "employable American" expects too much?

I just graduated with a Masters degree in computer science from a top-10 school here in the US. I being an international student under the student visa (f-1) was hoping that a bill would come through at least increasing the H-1B cap for advanced degrees. I was hoping to do research and development in core research areas that currently only companies in the US work on. I am very keen use the knowledge I gained at school, in the top-tier development companies.

To give back to the community I taught high school Math to students from the Upward Bound Program during the weekends while doing my Masters program. I've tried to help the community where I live in as much as possible.

Without a H-1B visa, I will not be able to work in the USA for more than a year and not be able to work on some of the cool technologies I dreamt to work on when I left home. US is still the place where a lot of the innovation happens and I hope they increase the quota of H-1B for students with advanced degrees from here in the US.

To all (including my friend from the state labor department) who think the companies are just defrauding the system by not hiring american workers in place of the foreign h1B workers need to think first about the ridiculous laws that are in place in a free society. Let's pick up a typical job description - 5 years of experience in a particular industry and a bachelor's degree. The company interviews several candidates, all meeting the basic qualifications but finds only a foreign h1B candidate to really fit the bill (may be because he/she is really good). If the company strictly goes by the general arguments presented in some posts above, it would never be able to hire the foreign guy, even though the candidate might be a top 1% performer through his studies and career. The laws are too impractical. It requires a company not to hire a foreign worker because some worker meets basic criteria. Of course, if the worker is being paid less than the prevailing wage, that should be stopped. But let's not take the laws to an extreme because there is hardly any specialty profession job for which no americans meet the basic criteria. That doesn't meet companies should hire any tom, dick and harry that shows up for the interview. Would you do that if you were a hiring manager? The companies would rather take their entire office offshore than hire somebody they are not convinced about.

Rajan,

By your logic, as long as America can flood in foreigners with MS degrees and a few years of experience, then no employers would hire the new U.S. grads with BS degrees - or would only hire those from Ivy League or 3.8 GPA.

You cite the "5 year experience" job postings. We see many of those too. Since when does it take a BS degree holder 5 additional years to become proficient in a new skill? I've seen people with one year experience outperform people with 20 years experience. These are arbitrary nonsense created by HR dept to filter out when TOO MANY applicants apply.

Why are programmers being singled out? Why should We ever hire female police officers, when we could probably flood in plenty of USSR males, willing to work for a lower wage and no pension.

Regarding "prevailing wage," it's not a matter of paying "below." See our most recent blog entry in the LINK of my name KIM BERRY: In LA the "prevailing wage" for a programmer is $44k, while the wage paid to average Americans is $64k.

H-1b should only be hired when NO QUALIFIED Americans are avalable - and that is very rare indeed. Why does Rajan feel an entitlement to take U.S. jobs, and why doesn't he like the jobs in India?

Kim,

I understand your frustration. But there is something called comparative advantage. If China can produce your clothes cheaper, there is no way you can justify keeping textile jobs in US. Similar argument works in favor of US (Boeing) in case of aircrafts. IT services are not much different in today's world.

If people like you have your way, all programming jobs will go to India because the companies will relocate their offices, or even headquarters. Not for the reasons put up by you, but I would take up a job in India in a couple of years (by the way, I am not in IT industry. But what I do is besides the issue). And McDonalds and GM would have to close their offices in India. Global trade is not a one way street.

It is all about screwing American workers.

You think I'm kidding?? I'm being outrageous??

check the websites! this video. This is the real outrage!

www.youtube.com/programmersguild

www.competeamerica.us

www.noslaves.com

http://www.eng-i.com/E-Newsletters.htm

Anyone who comes over on a company-sponsered visa is essentially an indentured servant who can not afford to risk thinking outside of the box or stretch the limits of creativity for fear of losing their visa sponsorship and being uprooted and sent back to their country of origin.

There are stereotypes that can be made about Americans vs countries such as India, China, or even Europoe: Americans have historically been encouraged to take risks and think of new, innovative ways to solve problems. It has been born and bred into our culture from our earliest days as a country which was grown from hard-working innovators from other countries throughout the world.

It is absurd to treat technologists, engineers, and scientists like low-skilled workers who can be added to or subtracted from a project like brick layers or vegetable pickers.

One highly-skilled, experienced worker can do the work of 10 low-skilled foreign workers who are using the US as a training camp to learn programming. However, in my experience, even high-skilled worker may not be able to undo the massive damage done when companies build infrastructure and foundations on the 'house of cards' architecture built by amateurs.

Sometimes you get what you pay for.

After the incident in Scotland, is anyone bothering to check whether any of the H1Bs coming to the states are also working for Osama????

The Department of Homeland Security should be requiring that employers provide full background checks for the HiB employees to make sure there is not a wholesale import of terrorists occuring. If the employers want the H1Bs bad enough let them pay to play. I would say $25,000 a background check would be reasonable amount.

A letter or phone call to your senators and congresspersons will help close this security hole.

I'm concerned about this story for two reasons.

First, we seem to agree that employers (or their agents) are 'gaming' the system with the intent of reducing costs and skirting responsibilities. This stinks. We've seen it before in many forms, but it really hits home now. How many highly skilled workers were concerned in the 70s & 80s when 'dirty' jobs in steel and manufacturing were relocated throughout the globe? Not many, because we bought the fairy tale that the US could still thrive as a service economy.

Second, and possibly more importantly, our reactions to this story are somewhat alarming. Facts are co-mingled with emotional arguments and Jingoistic language. Breaking the arguments down, I see three problems: fear/greed, exploitation, passivity. There is fear among those displaced and among those hiring -- fear that others are getting 'our' jobs and fear that competitors are hiring for less. There is greed among employers and investors, that pushes for quarterly upswings in earnings. This is what leads rational people to play with the system, which ultimately puts the squeeze on all of us. And, until now, many of us have done little to stop this problem.

I can only thank the folks at InfoWorld and elsewhere for keeping us in the loop.

Note the conspicuous absence of a prescription to this ill -- anyone able to read and digest these blogs and comments knows the difference between good and bad. Now would be a bad time to abandon solid American values. You know what to do.