My Epson Photo R200 recently ran out of yellow ink. I got messages saying that the ink supply was getting low *but that I could keep printing until the cartridge was empty*! That alone floored me. When I finally got the empty cartridge message I looked at the remaining ink. There was perhaps a drop or two left, maybe enough for a print or two, but probably not enough for reliable ink pickup.

I'm satisfied that Epson wasn't intentionally allowing ink to remain in the cartridge just to sell more, and the "use-it-until-it's-dry" message reassured me. Maybe Epson is being a little conservative in sensing too little ink for reliable printing, but it doesn't appear to be be cheating.

Of course, the R200 is an old model, so I can't vouch for later models or for Epson in general, but you did ask for our experiences.

My Epson CX4800 inkjet has 3 color cartridges and one black cartridge. If any cartridge runs out of ink, the entire printer won't work. So, it you run out of cyan, you can't even print a document in black on white. This is not true with my HP inkjets. If the HP Tri-color runs out of ink, you can still print with the black cartridge. That is why I will never by another Epson printer.

It's a racket, plain and simple. A corrupt version of the razor cartridge market.

Printer companies have been subsidizing the cost of printers for years based on this business model.

What can you do?
1) Vote with your wallet.
2) Get your company to do the same.

Just don't complain when the cost of printers jumps 30-40% and you have to get a replacement print head every few cartridges.

As long as people keep making their purchase based heavily on initial acquisition cos and not the lifetime cost-to-own, this racket will continue.

I have an Epson Stylus CX5200 and my ink ran out but
my pc is telling me that i still have some more I can't even print one piece of paper.

With some printer designs, there is a reason why you want to have a little bit of ink left in the cartridge when it stops printing. All Epson printers, most Canon printers, and some newer HP printers have permanent print heads. If all of the ink in the ink tank, as well as the ink in the "plumbing" and print head is used up, then air can get into the system and dry up any residual ink, resulting in clogged nozzles. At this point, the only solution is to replace the printer. Most printer vendors design the system to keep the print head and the plumbing wet.

My HP DeskJet 5850N is an older model. It turns on the "low ink" warning light early, but you can keep printing until the cartridge run dry. When I replace it soon (any buyers?), I plan to look at the cost ink consumption carefully, not just price.

I now purchase printers instead of the ink. When the $75 cartridge runs out (CDN price), I just go and buy a new printer - for less than the cost of the cartridge!!!

Except... my latest printer - a Lexmark X6170 had both cartridges "clog" (a fancy word for 'the chip timed out'), so I bought a black cartridge ONLY, and it's been a fine B&W printer ever since.

-S

I had a friend who bought an Epson all in one scanner/fax/printer.
After 6 months and printing only a handful of pages he got messages that all four ink cartridges were empty. I took them out and could hear that they were almost full. After some research on the web I purchased an ink cartridge chip reset device from e-may for around $5.00. It did the trick and saved him from buying 4 new cartridges.

I have a Canon i560. Each color is an idividual cartridge and the cartridge is clear and easy to refill. It is very acurate when it signals a low and and empty cartridge. I bought an ink refill kit at Costco for 18.00 and have refilled them 3 or 4 times. Printhead is not on the cartridge so even if you don't want to do the refill thing, the cartridges cost far less than HP or Lexmark.

I currently use (at home) two Canon i series inkjet printers, both using BCi3 series cartridges. I have been extremely happy with them- they print lots of very nice sheets per cartridge, each color has a separate cartridge which gets reported as "low" or "out" individually. The cartridges are clear, which I like- when they go in, they look full; when they are "out" you can see they are really out. And they are- tank empty and the feed fiber section 1/3 white. I have had one Lexmark which was as horrible as its reputation (even though I am a Lexington native!). My first inkjet was an Epson (LONG ago) with a 3-color black cartridge, which was a pain. As long as Canon sticks with the type of system I like, I'll stick with them. If they go HP, I don't know what I'll do. Your survey may help!

I also have an Epson R200 - love the printer but HATE the fact that if a single color runs out you can not print anything - even if a color runs out it will not allow black print only. The nearest place I can get a cartridge fast is 40 miles away. This is not cost/environment/time friendly and even though I have had Epson printers since the 80's I will not get another one if it has this 'feature'. BTW - once the cartridge thinks it is out of ink it really appears to be virtually empty.

We found a similar story from PC world indicating some Epson cartridges were found to indicate empty after only 40% of the ink:

http://www.pacificink.com/blog/2007/06/20/388/

I am a big advocate for buying compatible and remanufactured cartridges see: http://www.pacificink.com/blog/2007/06/14/why-recycled-ink-cartridges/

The printer manufacturers are aggressively collecting cartridges but what do they do with the cartridges after they collect them? Some have reported that Lexmark cuts the electronic strips after they collect to make sure they don't end up on the market again. On an HP cartridge box they print that a portion of the cartridge contains recycled material. So why do HP and the other large printer manufacturers spend millions on ad campaigns discouraging people to use re manufactured?

I'm going to be very upset when my Canon i860 dies. New (non-OEM) cartridges are super cheap. Also simple to refill for those so inclined - not so with newer models. Epson fans should look into continuous ink systems.

After years of frustration with the 'three-in-one' cartridges, I purchased an hp K550 pro/office printer that has four seperate ink tanks. When the first tank said that it was 'out' and refused to print, I took the tank apart to investigate. They use an aluminized mylar bladder to hold the ink and it was flattened and formed around the support structure, almost as if you had taken a vacuum to it. There was, indeed, no usable ink left. Definitely a first for hp, in my experience.

Have Canon IP600D and weems rasonably accurate, at least when I ran it on Windows. I now run Solaris and Linux, and the native software doesn't work there. So, I have to open up and peek once in a while. Ultimately a much mpre accurate gauge I am sure. (As long as I where my bifocals!)

Have Canon IP600D and seems reasonably accurate, at least when I ran it on Windows. I now run Solaris and Linux, and the native software doesn't work there. So, I have to open up and peek once in a while. Ultimately a much more accurate gauge I am sure. (As long as I where my bifocals!)

"very interesting"...I think it a great idea to start a movement toward ending this outrageous ink cartridge situation - and the secrecy around it. Due to disability/poverty I continue to use my old Epson Stylus Color 1520, bought new for making art photo prints. To my knowledge only Epson uses pigment rather than dye-based inks, for documented permanency -- 3rd party inks must be dye-based despite "claims", as they not only fade/discolor, but tend to clog by 2nd replacement. On my last visit to "authorized" Epson repairman he fixed the clog with a paperclip and a couple minutes (but a hefty service charge) - and told me that Epsons don't measure ink-in-cartridge, but rather count pages printed to determine when ink is "out". And I feel compelled to use nothing but branded Epson cartridges cuz of ink quality issues...

I've been buying refilled toner cartridges and 3rd party ink cartridges for many years. I quit using HP inkjets at home because of the single cartridge issue. I use a Canon i550 (four ink tanks) and have bought cartridges for as low as $1.00 each at the local computer swap. Those cartridges work just fine. I had a clogged printhead at one point and was faced with a $65.00 replacement. The nice folks at the computer swap explained how to clean the printhead, including how to remove it, rinse it, and reinstall it (no big deal, really).

My printer does warn me that it is low on ink prematurely. Hitting the reset button on the printer continues printing and clears the warning. I do this until the cartrige really won't print any more - no wasted ink here.

Consumer Reports recently did some tests on 3rd-party inks. Their results were interesting; they showed that no matter how inexpensive the inks, the average price per print was about the same because 3rd party ink cartdriges generally don't last as long or use ink more quickly. And there were variations on quality from the OEM carts. Still, I buy 3rd party for almost everything except formal presentation print jobs; I usually use OEM inks for those, "just in case."

I have three HP Inkjets (DJ 890C, photosmart 1215 & OfficeJet 6110)

It is my understanding and experience that the HP cartridges are timed to expire about 24 months after manufacturing, regardless if they've ever been put into a printer. This "feature" is used by the print driver. The NT 3.5 driver would time out the cartridges in the 890 but the same timed out cartridge would work fine under Windows 2003 until they run out of ink.

One other downside of the time out on the cartridges, especially if you do not print a lot is that it is hard to keep a spare set of cartridges around for when they do run dry, by then the spares may have timed out sitting on the shelf.

The all in one 6110 will continue to work only as a scanner when the cartridges have timed out but will not work to send a fax (can't print the transaction report so won't let you send a fax, even if you don't want the wasteful report).

Regarding the fading, the manufactures have formulated their inks and papers to work together. I've found out the hard way buying several hundred sheets of Epson photo paper at great Costco prices then printing on an HP photosmart printer that the image will fade considerably after a year, where when printed on HP paper will look good much longer.

The consumables game the printer manufactures play with their customers will only work as long as gullible consumers play along.

I've stopped printing my own photos and do very little printing at all. I make PDFs and email them or fax from my desktop and let the recipient print them if they want a hard copy. One client is archiving everything as PDFs so receiving a PDF is actually preferred by them.

I have a Brother All-in-One and an Epson CX6400. I like the Epson and find it fair. When it says the cart is out, it's OUT. I have enough ink running around that I don't mind that it doesn't let me keep printing in Greyscale when the color runs out. the Brother however, I am thinking of wrapping as a present fot the company President. Including it's expired while still full cartriges. I bought a set of carts with the printer and when the ink ran out I replaced it. I thought it was a little funny that the old ink still looked about 10% full. It was even odder that the carts all ran out one right after the other but ... When the new ink also said Empty and I Knew it was full - well - I'm looking for a new printer. I looked at the package & there it was, just like milk "Best if Used By"......

Reasonable cost color laser all in one preferred but I DON'T print a lot & the last laser I got used more drums than toner. One thing I'm sure of - the new printer will NOT be a Brother.

Couldn't find anything real to rail against, eh? Well, King Canute, here's a couple of possible answers: 1) get a laser printer 2) Call me for a more expensive printer 3) get a real life.

Rich

Hello,

I remember selling a car for my first printer, it was a Star XB-2410 color 24-pin dot matrix printer, which if I hooked it up would print faster than some my ink jet printers, but the color was a disappointment.

I also had a HP-1200C wide carriage printer, which I could refill, but I had to put 2 bad cartridges in before the HP software would reset and read it as full again. Also, if I was lucky I could refill it maybe 3 times, before something happened to the cartridge that refilling couldn't cure. I also goofed once and broke it by taking one of the cartridges out in a hurry for another HP printer and closing it and powering it off. If was probably a resistor, but beyond me. But now I found another one for only $10.00 at Savers, that only had to be cleaned up from the ink sponges being overflowed under where they park.

I stayed away from Canon printers because of their poor Linux support. I've been trying to get a Brother Laser to work, but a friend said it must be some sort of wire inside that has to be cleaned.

I'm glad I'm printing less, since using Linux, I can afford more PCs and displays to reference PDFs, etc.

The problem with actually repairing electronics can also be blaimed on the manufacturers. In their "repair manuals" for technicians, they describe various problems with solutions that include replacing entire modules rather than trouble shooting diagrams to determine the bad component in a module. A few years ago, I also had a bad VCR that was completely dead. The "repair manual" provided a list (!!!) of modules to attempt repairs. Some of the modules cost between $50 and $100. Instead, I used an oscilliscope to eventually find the one bad transistor, which cost me less than 10 cents to replace. The VCR then worked perfectly.

This topic is a recurring issue on Ed Foster's Gripelog. Perhaps the two of you should join forces.

Another alternative to this printing problem is to take your printing needs, especially the big orders to some place like Office Max and let them print it out. I figured that it might actually be cheaper in the long run to do this.

I have the Epson RX500. I bought this printer to have sepearate color cartridges but find this printer says I'm using color eventho I only print in black!! As previous posters noted...you cannot print in black if any color carts are out. Epson's web site has a FAQ section that states the color carts are used even when printing in black only, to keep the jets clean. I seriously doubt they use enough ink to drain the carts as often as I need to replace them. I suspect Epson of joining this conspiracy to charge unsuspecting customers for unnecessary ink. But for this issue, I like the printer.

I'm still using an HP DJ 722C with the 45 and 23 cartridges. As an IT professional, I don't print as much; electronic printing is a lot cheaper. If I want prints of any pics, my wife takes them to Wal-Mart or Walgreens.

I also work part-time at one of the Big 3 office supply stores, and I can tell you that I stopped recommending Brother inkjet printers a long time ago. The printer won't print B&W if one of the other colors is out, and their ink evaporates very quickly. With regards to their laser printers, they're great workhorses, with one caveat, they need laser paper. Why? Copy paper is too rough on Brother's drums, which will force you to spend a lot of money on a replacement.

With Epson printers, at one time, a trainer told me that the page count for their cartridges accounted for a small leftover in the tank; there always was leftover ink. Also, that once the cartridges were removed, they became unusable; my guess is that once air penetrates the cartridge, it fouls up the sensor.

Even though I no longer work in the technology section of that store (I now manage the front end), I continue to give customers the same advise: whether it's ink or printer, you are going to pay . . . you'll either pay for the cartridge or you'll pay for the printer, but you'll pay.

I personally prefer to spend my money on a better printer with cartridges that have their own printheads, like HPs, than separate ink tanks like Canon, Brother, or Epson. I don't believe I'd ever buy a Lexmark or Dell (made by Lexmark); new Lexmark cartridges are overpriced and you can't buy new Dell cartridges other than from Dell.

Last, for what it's worth, HP printers are not what they used to be. Also, I don't believe in expiration dates for ink; they are completely unnecessary except to make money for the manufacturers.

I too am sick and tired of being ripped off by Epson. I had an old Epson printer that worked great for me for years. I could refill them in about 5 minutes and be good to go. I got a new computer and this Epson CX4600 came bundled with it. After printing about 5 things, it started acting up and required several head cleanings. Then it kept telling me I was out of ink, when I could clearly hear it was full of ink when I shook it. I was awarded a refund from Epson as part of their settlement with the U.S. Gov't. I ordered some new ink and was good to go for about one week and then the same thing started happening again; poor printing, head cleanings and now it says I'm out of ink again. When I shake them I can hear the ink inside. I've seen this new gadget that will reset the chips on these cartridges. I hear they work great and can't wait for it to arrive in the mail. I've got old cartridges that I know are full of ink so I can use them also. Once those are gone, I'm going back to my all in one Lexmark. It's a great little printer for $35 at Walmart. I've had no problems whatsoever with it. Good luck to you all with your Epson printers. Anyone ever tried to talk to customer service at Epson? What a joke!

well, i sale compatible cartridges, ink and refill-kits in romania, it-s a huge bussines, so printer producer can just bark like mad dogs about loosing the warranty of the product if using that cartridge or refilling them, exactly because evan if something would go wrong with the printer (impossible by refilling it, btw), instead of using the warranty customers buy a new one, with 3 or 4 the economy is important, because a refill kit for 4 refills costs less than 1/3 of a new cartridge, that ususally is more expensive than the whole printer LOL.

Sorry for my poor English, hope u got my point.

Iulius - romania
http://www.mediatec.ro
http://www.cartuseonline.blogspot.com/
(just in romanian language)

I have a Canon Pixma IP5200 photo printer. It does a beautiful job of printing -- much better than my old ink hog Epson C86.

However, It does a very strange thing with he ink cartridge levels. I have turned the printer on a couple of times and then decided not to print. When I turn it on again -- perhaps after a week,
several of the ink cartridges report a low level warning. It's like the ink is evaporating.

Any idea if Canon is pulling some stunts like Epson got in trouble for -- with their computerized chips?