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Real World SOA | David Linthicum » "The State of That Stack: Where Web Services Standards Are Today"

May 22, 2006 | Comments: (0)

"The State of That Stack: Where Web Services Standards Are Today"

Last week I was asked to speak at the Info World SOA Executive Forum in NYC, as well as sit in on the "Technology: The State of That Stack: Where Web Services Standards Are Today." panel, with:


Moderator: Rohit Khare, Research Director, Commerce Net
Dr. Toufic Boubez, CTO, Layer 7
TN Subramanium, Chief Architect and Director of Technology, RouteOne LLC
Steve Vinoski, Chief Engineer, IONA Technologies

And me,

David Linthicum, CEO, Bridgewerx and InfoWorld's Real World SOA Blogger

First of all I hate panels. I won't moderate them if it can be helped, and after sitting on them I always feel I need a shower. However, this one was different. Rohit did a great job in focusing the panel, and the panelists had some very interesting things to say about the state of standards.

The long and the short of the conversation was that there are too many standards, they are too confusing, and many of the standards, such as BPEL, don’t work without a ton of proprietary enhancements. Indeed the WS-* standards are actually hurting the emerging SOA space, since there are so many and the fact that some are redundant and competing.

So, what do you do about all this? Here are a few suggestions from me:

First of all, get the marketing guys out of there. Vendors are starting standards to draw attention to their products, not to help users. We're losing focus about why standards exist.

Second, the users need to push back on this, send a clear message to the vendors who are looking to create standards as a selling mechanism. If the users vote with their dollars, believe me, the vendors will listen.

Finally, let's focus on making a few standards work. We seem to get many of them about 70-80 percent cooked, then let them flounder. Perhaps that's one of the issues with having too many standards to pay attention too.

Posted by Dave Linthicum on May 22, 2006 02:23 PM


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Dave,

I agree that there are too many WS-* standards and that in some cases the vendors (and analysts) use the number of standards implemented as a lazy measure of the worth of a product - as opposed to whether the product solves a real customer problem efficiently!

I also agree that it is hurting the SOA story as recently highlighted by Sun's Tim Bray who states his lack of faith in WS-* as a whole and by inference in SOA in an interview I recently commented on in http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/soaroads/2006/05/i_hope_suns_soa_strategy_isnt.php.

I always tell people that there are actually very few WS-* standards that you need to worry about for most projects (and yes - BPEL is probably going to be one and if used as an orchestration tool rather than an all encompassing integration layer as some attempt to present it as, it does the job *sometimes*). Lets ignore the rest until they are mature or just go away!

Posted by: Ronan Bradley at May 22, 2006 04:35 PM

Dave: I too thought Rohit did a great job focusing the panel around a complex question, one of the highlights of the show.

There's no doubt that some standards are exercises in marketing. That said, how else are we to get interoperability, reusability and all the other benefits standards provide? Alan Joch does a nice job of summarizing the debate at http://www.adtmag.com/article.aspx?id=10991&page= .

Ian Bruce, Systinet.

Posted by: Ian Bruce at May 23, 2006 02:15 PM

We like to say it is not a matter of WS-* but WS-JustRight. Make sure you have a reason for adding different WS specifications. A successful SOA does not require anything past WSDL and SOAP. Only if you have requirements for things like security and reliability do you have to add specifications. And when you do add, make sure you look for solutions that are simple and mature. Remember that it is important to maintain Quality throughout your SOA and keeping things simple is one of the best ways to do that.

Frank Grossman - Mindreef

Posted by: Frank Grossman at May 24, 2006 05:34 AM

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