Before you have passed customs you have not yet entered the US, so US laws don't apply. They do not have to get a search warrant to search your baggage or your body. By extension, they can search your laptop. Customs can also seize materials that are illegal to import into the US. It seems that making a copy of the contents of a hard drive that does not contain illegal material does not seem correct to me. Making a copy is equivalent to seizing the contents.

Once you have officially entered the US, all US laws apply. A search warrant should be needed to examine the laptop and the fifth amendment could apply to not divulging the password or encryption key. However, invoking the fifth amendment is tantamount to admitting that there is incriminating material.

The stupid thing about this policy is that any data that can be carried into the country on any media can be transferred over the internet to a server in the US without customs getting any opportunity to review the data. It looks to me like it is just an opportunity for homeland security to get it's hands on data/info that it can't legally obtain inside the US.

Starbrd
I disagree with "invoking the fifth amendment is tantamount to admitting that there is incriminating material." I can invoke teh 5th ammendment anytime I want for any reason I want. You can never prove that it is or isn't incriminating. Just because people assume you have someting to hide doesn't mean you do! In a case where you have files with suspicious names doesn't mean you have done anything wrong. As more and more of our freedoms are taken away from us I think more and more people will start "hiding" behind the 5th ammendment as a way of saying "none of your business"

First, this should be a cue to Infoworld readers to use encryption for anything they don't want to share with strangers. The more encryption is used in every day life, the less it indicates to officials that there is something wrong with doing it.

Second, don't put anything on a laptop that you're not willing to put on the front page of a newspaper.

Third, as Stephen pointed out, you should use the Internet rather than physical means to move data.

When we submit to these searches and do not fight back our rights are taken from us, little by little. AS citizens we must demand this stop and if it were me, I'd tell the inspectors to shove it if I were on a domestic flight as some of these cases have been. In nation inspections are only to make sure the computer or any electonic device is safe, the contents are none of their business. I don't mind turning on the computer to show it operates, but thats all they are going to see, or else. Fight back citizens, fight not only city hall, but the State Capital and the White House. That's what our founders did to give us this unique nation, and we have to demand our elected officals work within the Constitution, and Bill of Rights. Including the second amemdment. Have the lives lost to protect our rights meant nothing? Don't surrender now.

"The stupid thing about this policy is that any data that can be carried into the country on any media can be transferred over the internet to a server in the US without customs getting any opportunity to review the data."

Customs does not need to review the data being transferred over the internet, because the Patriot act permits un-warrented wire-tapping as long as one end of the converstion is outside the country. The Department of Homeland Security has a green light to monitor all traffic entering and leaving the country.

As far as using PGP is concerned, yes it is good, but do you doubt that the government has machines sufficiently capable to decrypt virtually anything in a reasonable time?

Read the The Cuckoo's Egg by Richard Stoll (copyrighted 1989, 1990) to get a sense of history, then consider what progress has been made since it was written.

And what about ENCRYPT your PC, with PGP and a godd password they can spent a life trying do decrypt your data ....

This really speaks to the importance of backup and will push people and companies in that direction strongly. Your computer is not your own but – can, strike that, must keep control of your data. It is important to your confidential customer records. Gosh – should you be traveling around with all your contact info?

We dug into this topic from other directions on our blog: http://sgvar.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2008/2/14/3524434.html. The focus of the piece is the requirements of Sarbanes-Oxley which intersect this issue rather interestingly.

Thanks

The assertion that the Constitution does not apply to a US citizen in a foreign government when dealing with the US government is totally fallacious. It does, there is no legal doubt in case law.

Frankly, if you're from a foreign country, the full effect of the Constitution shouldn't apply to you in this country, unless you are a citizen. I'm sure that crossing our border as a foreigner is de-facto consent to a search, I haven't a problem with that.

Our company has just started mandating hard-drive encryption of all company owned laptops. Now, I need to ask if we should voluntarily give up the password to a customs agent.

The US in 2008... sounding far too similar to Germany in 1938... v sad.

Just more fascism in the name of "security." I'm far more worried about this kind of thing than I think I could ever be worried about 'terrorists'.

I agree with the comment about siding with the founding fathers. They faced a far bigger threat--the very real possibility of being overrun by THE world superpower in them days--and they still felt that individual liberties were more important than 'anti-terrorist' legislation. We're dealing with nasty people, sure, but there just aren't that many of them, even if the administration is breeding them as fast as it can.

I'd love to find out what they think they're going to find that couldn't have been xmitted more securely and discretely through, say, steganography built into one of 1000 different porn stills (aka "a Purloined Letter from Penthouse" ).

A large part of the problem is that ignorant people beleive idiotic things like:

"Before you have passed customs you have not yet entered the US, so US laws don't apply. They do not have to get a search warrant to search your baggage or your body."

WRONG!!!! -- there is NOTHING in the Constitution that says it applies to a geographical area. PERIOD. To accept the idiotic premise that it does; would mean that customs (and any other goverment employee) could summarily execute you with impunity just for laughs in the airport lobby.

Geez, don't they teach ANYTHING in school anymore???!

Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security.
Benjamin Franklin

"...the full effect of the Constitution shouldn't apply to you in this country, unless you are a citizen."

Messrs. Jefferson, Adams, et al would seem to have an opinion that differs slightly from yours. The word "citizen" does not occur even once within the Bill of Rights, although the word "people" and "person" occur quite often. The 14th Amendment, which asserted the supremacy of US Constitution over the constitutions of the various states, is similarly careful to extend equal protection to all persons within its jurisdiction, not merely those who reside here or those who are citizens.

As others have noted, it seems reasonable to demand, prior to embarkation, some demonstration that your electronic device poses no threat to the safe arrival of the transport and its passengers; on arrival at your destination, it may be reasonable to perform a cursory inspection of a traveler's physical belongings to ensure that he isn't contravening import laws. But I think it's outrageous to want to closely examine the digital contents of travelers' electronic devices. The digital content does not endanger the travel system, nor does it violate importation restrictions.

To Carl Street:

This has been happening for a long time. It happened to me. Yes, I knew my rights. I also knew they weren't going to let me go until I allowed them to inspect my car without me being there and to inspect my briefcase (didn't have a laptop at the time). I finally gave in. I was carrying nothing. However, I had heard stories of how they would strip your car to the metal and mine was a fairly new Corvette!

The guy behind the counter (a big, ugly ex-Marine) knew I was carrying something. Of course, I wasn't (except some ham that I could only get in Vancouver at the time - before Seattle became so upper crust). But I too believed in my rights. I'm a Libertarian and I was willing to wait them out. Trust me, they would've let me starve first.

So, you're not protected by the laws of the US. You basically give up all those rights when you leave. My sincere hope is one day, to leave and not come back (before it's in a box).

In regards to the 5th. I once had a minor civil dust-up where I needed some big guns to get rid of it quickly. So, I ended up hiring an ex-Federal Prosecutor. Great guy. We were jay-walking across the street (office to court house) and I mentioned that this was unseemly from a prosecutor. He smiled and said: "If the police stop us you give them your name and address only. Nothing else." I have taken that to heart and still wonder about these stupid people who spill their guts to some jerk who says he's with the government. Trust me, I would take the 5th regardless of what they asked, including what day it is. You're stupid in today's US to do anything else.

Our rights and laws are a mockery. We have been reduced to a bunch of quivering nincompoops in the corner waiting to be arrested for something. We deserve what we get.

And, that applies to those who carry a laptop with anything on it other than the OS. You deserve what you get. There is no where in the world that one would want to go where you can't get a connection to your home computer. Use LogMeIn and it's like being there (no, I'm not an owner, but I am a customer). There are other services that do the same. You know it's coming. Just prepare.

BTW, it won't be long, I suspect, before they'll be able to do the same when you travel on an airplane within the US. It's for your own good, you know......

It seems that neither constitutional law nor history are on the school curriculum today - it's not, after all, on the test!

That the founders went back and amended the constitution to preserve the most basic rights - even through they mostly thought them obvious given what they had been through - should tell us something about how important these liberites were to them.

What we are learning today is that liberty only exists to the extent we continue to agree that it is more important than our fear. It is more consensual and fragile that one might have thought. Our liberties - and our ability to recover from lapses, abuses and foolishness - are the reason this country has survived over 200 years. Loss of liberty should be the thing we fear most.

The most dangerous thing in the world is the human mind gone bad. We seem to have gone to the world of banning objects but objects themselves don't do anything by themselves or where created by themselves. It is the human mind that uses or abuses the object for either good or evil. We are concentrating or the wrong end of the problem.
I don't want to use the excuse either of a "certain" type of people are evil just like Nazi Germany or even the Tailban. Bad/evil people are never good for any society but we should not "ban" people unless they are habitual criminals that destroy people and property for their enjoyment.
This confiscating electronic devices is a dangerous precedent since this will lead to confiscating other objects in the name of "security".

Hear, hear, Phil! Well said. And I'm going to go look at LogMeIn, just because it might be nice to have. As well as using PGP on the DVDs I take along.

you all need to calm down a little here - this is no different to llosing your pc in a taxi - or having it stolen - you have no idea what they are going to do with the data either! so the first thing to do is always encrypt data on the laptop. Second, try never to have any sensitive data on your laptop - i frquently clean my laptop down and encrypt what is left. that way when ever any disreputable person - taxi driver, theif , customs official takes my PC it is useless ot them. So on that premise number three is back up the data.

There we are no problem. My only issues is why the secrecy from the governement. I already know what .is on my PC so why cant they tell me what they will do with it? Its just a bit brain dead really. all they need to do is declare a process for this situation and if they find nothing wrong , a complete hand back of the PC with no copy of the data taken and all is ok. If there is a problem then they can throw the book at me. no secret needed there. Its just bureaucrats being a bit thick thats all.

so my advice is look after your own game and then the governement cant harm you.

I remember when this column was fun to read. Lately it has become a soapbox. I'm canceling my subscription.

I'm sure it's all OK, as long as it doesn't affect, you know, white people.

When it starts happening to 'Murukuns in ferin lands, we will trot out the Geneva Convention or something.

In summary, 9/11.

I hope this all changes when the Bush Administration is flushed down the toilet of history.

If they make a copy of our hard drive, can we refere them to MS, Corel, etc. for copyright infringement? After all, we did not authorize them to make a copy of our software. We have no control with what they do with the copy. How do we know they won't sell it?

To Joey,

Don't blame InfoWorld or this column -- I remember when America was a fun country to live in. Lately, it is governed by soapbox orators without a clue as to what America is supposed to be all about. Perhaps I should "cancel" my subscription to being a citizen???

Bob, you are nuts if you think that taking a few steps will result in "the government can't harm you". If you agree to the reduction of your freedoms, the day will come when the government will have the right to come to your door and haul you away "just because". You may have something someone else wants, and so they trump up charges, and with no recourse, you are hauled away and locked up or shot. That's what happened in Europe and is happening in other parts of the world now. You have no idea how fortunate you are to live where you do. If you don't protect those freedoms, you _will_ lose them.
Personally, I was horrified at the creation of "Homeland Security". If there is a problem in the country, the FBI has the lead. If it is external, the CIA and NSA (why two orgs?) should have point. The two should be made to work together. Homeland Security is just a way to get a choke-hold on the American middle class. Unfortunately, too many of the American middle class have become cowardly.
If you want to preserve freedom and our way of life, do whatever you can to get rid of Homeland Security and demand your representatives represent you, not special interests. Otherwise, Nazi Germany will be peanuts compared to what this country becomes.
Heaven help us all!

If only there was some sort of historical document that limits the extent of government in our business and laid out our rights in a clear and concise manner...

Those of you suggesting employing tougher versions of encryption on your machines should note: in several cases the computer has yet to be returned to the owner even a year after being confiscated at the border.

I'm going to take my oldest laptop and set it up with the bare minimum of programs and files. This will be my international travel machine for doing things like digital photo storage and such.

@Starbrd:

I don't understand where you get the idea that U.S. law doesn't apply until you've passed Customs. I'd /love/ to see an authoritative reference for that.

Besides, Constitutional protections are generally restrictions /against/ government activities. The prohibition against unwarranted search/seizure is a restriction on federal governmental power. Are you trying to say that those agents are operating outside of the U.S.A. Constitutional jurisdiction? I.e., because they're "in Customs", they're not bound by U.S. law?

Interesting. Very strange, but interesting.

Homeland Security is neither.

This is not HOMELAND. This is the United States of America. A country of people ruled by God, the Constitution, the 50 States and the Federal Government, with Powers doled out in that order.

That does not include an administration that thinks it is legal to search old ladies in airports and turn spy satellites on its own citizens while abandoning nuclear disarmament treaties and ratifying documents designed to enslave with catchy titles like "patriot act".

McCarthy ain't even all that rotten in his grave and already we have let the Delusional Paranoids start running the country again. It seems to be a real button with humans that they always listen to the divinely crazy people.

=========

As for the laptops, the user agreed to a license when they turned them on to never let any third party make copies of it, without uninstalling the original version first, under penalty of Federal Copyright laws, i.e. $50,000.00 a pop.

So, the federal airport bureaucrats are setting themselves up for the mother of all lawsuits by Microsoft, et al, for copyright violations, even though they are "not for profit" copyright violations.

I think Microsoft can use it as a way to recoup all of its losses in fighting the feds for the last two decades. Sure, suing uncle sam is a PR issue, but hey, this is America, "anything can happen".

all i can say in addition to all this is damm..... here we go again, anyone that has lived in the united states and lenght of time knows this!they can!!/will and have done what ever they damm well please through customs and through homeland securtity.
we are a nation of corruptness, that allows our own goverment to violate any rights we have,through any means on the pretense that we maybe potential dangerous. i'm sorry but i really have to laugh at this.
our rights as a free nation were terminated a long time ago , just that no one told anyone, as far as constitutional law? there has been so many amendments to our constittuion that the origanl version is long gone in the past now we have legalized invasion of privacy which constitutes a socialistic structure and allows our goverment so call of the people by the people and for the people LOL which it is not !! to do what ever they feel justified to incriminate as many people they can over bogus crap to create a file and label so they can keep a better track on where we go and what we do and to me that! is totally wrong but who will do anything about it?? not one soul........ would take years in the juducial system to seek retribution for these acts against honest people while they get away with more and more personal invasions.. catch 22?? yep.. watch what else they have planned my friends you aint seen nothing yet.

All people posting on this Blog will have their private information forwarded to "THE MINISTRY OF TRUTH "; For use in prosecuting future crime you have yet to commit!!
-George Orwell (1984)

Lol, you really should have voted.
The amazingly low turnout of voters at every election means you really don't care who runs your country, or how.
You fools have no right to complain, you have no rights at all.
Don't like it?
Vote for the person you want to run your country.
Pay attention to their policies, and hold them accountable for their actions.
And please make a good choice, or you will end up being even more unpopular than now with another Bush in power.

tcapun, I wish you and the current administration would take your religious righteousness and shove it where the rain don't shine. What the hell does christian religious beliefs have to do with this topic? Until a change to the constitution is made your beliefs don't mean squat and should have no bearing what-so-ever on government policy. Deal with it.

More on topic, all you winy bastards need to encrypt your drives and this whole issue goes away. As for me, I don't have anything to hide so they can look all they want. As for US Customs having the right to inspect, damn right they should and do have the right to look at anything they want. How the hell else to you think they will be able to do their job? If they can't inspect things, then let's just lay them all off and use their salaries to make more bombs. I am sure your "God" would love that...

With the miniturization of technology they will have a tougher time.. you can already purchase memory cards not much larger then a postage stamp (memory stick pro duo)capable of holding multiple gigabytes of information. These things will only get smaller as time goes on. So even though it sucks that they are getting away with this I would go a step further then just encrypting your data, encrypt it and put it on one of these removable devices.. that way if they confiscate your data you will be losing a $200.00 memory card rather then a $2000.00 laptop you could even be real cheap and put it on a CD. Multiencrypt your data pgp it then blowfish it then pgp it again (don't forget those pass phrases). Yeah it sucks that they are doing it but you wont change anything by arguing about the consitution in a web blog at least get the satisfaction of knowing that if they go after your data they will be in for a head ache. Make sure you use a file shredding program that makes recovery of deleted files nigh impossible. Just because you don't fear them doesnt mean they aren't out to get you.

Ghammonds1 represents exactly the point of view that this government has been shoving down our throats for the last several decades. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that Ghammonds is a 20-something, public-school educated person (the fact that this individual can't spell or write coherently is a dead giveaway). I hear this "I don't have anything to hide, so why should I care," attitude from this entire generation, all the time. And it's exactly what they want.

They've taught you what to think. Those of us a bit older were taught HOW to think. And there's a giant difference.

Us whiny bastards have an expectation of privacy, and expect to be safe from unreasonable searches and seizures. Sorry, but expecting the government and its agents to act in a Constitutional manner is far from whining.

I shouldn't have to add CPU-hogging encryption to the data on my laptop so that someone who has no business looking in the first place can't read it.

As someone else said, the content of the laptop or other electronic device poses no danger to the aircraft, the travel infrastructure, passengers or personnel. It's irrelevant to the function and purpose of the TSA and the Customs people. And they have no business looking.

The Homeland was Nazi Germany. This is not the Homeland, this is the United States of America. Government's SOLE purpose is to guarantee the rights bestowed upon me by the Creator and codified in the Constitution. That's it. It has no business providing for my retirement, paying my medical bills or doing any of the other ten billion unconstitutional things it does. And it has no right to look at my laptop data when I travel.

It's about time that we started acting like citizens, because sheep and cows get led to slaughter.

I agree with Fred Smedley and I would say he should run for office but like I told Ron Paul the 1st time it is a waste of time running for office unless you are picked by the powers that be as they control not only who gets to run they control and count-the-votes. Having been in Government, until I blew the whistle, I can vouch for all of the above.

Course I have always said, long as folks treat a election like a horse race, we will always end up with the government nag.

1984 was 20yrs to early;
TK3

ghammonds1 said: "I don't have anything to hide so they can look all they want."

Terrific. Do you close the bathroom door when you conduct your private business? Do you prefer to have sex in private? If so, why if you have nothing to hide?

There are many legitimate reasons to need or desire privacy that do not involve criminal activity.

ghammonds1:

I reread what I wrote. I cannot find any reference to Christianity. Would you be so kind as to stop dubbing in when you read what I write?

The word God is no more Christian than Buddhist or for that matter Greek Pagan.

If you can make an avocado out of nothing then I'll listen to you as an authority on the subject. Until then, please make a better effort to hide your ignorance.

Thanks.

This is a bit of a repeat of what others have said, but it bears emphasis. The Bill of Rights restricts what the US government can do. It does not apply to any particular location, or any particular group of persons. So whether you're in or outside the border, or even whether you're a US citizen, shouldn't matter. Don't believe me? Read the damn thing.

If Microsoft ever sued the federal gov for copyright violation I vow to install Windows back on all my computers at home

In my opinion, the best thing to take with you is a thin client laptop. Just set a desktop or laptop to accept rdc connection. What will they do then? Ask where the hard drive is? There is no hdd in there to store info all of it is stored back home in the US. I have recommended that to a few clients of my that travel over seas. Either way you look at it customs should not have the right to search your laptop like that. You should still have control over your belongings while they are being searched

Of course if you want to take all your important doc's AND not have any nosey person (customs, thief, or whomever) have access to them. The TruCrypt is your friend - use the stealth way, so that inoccuous content is visible unless you know how to unearth the real content.

The people who think that encryption, or indeed any technology, are a solution to this problem are sadly misguided. The problem isn't technology and neither is the solution.

Security folks have a natural bias. They wish to protect and secure. From a limited perspective anything that appears to increase security becomes good. Plus, let's not forget, they are human too and making their job easier is always a nice bonus. Therefore security folks will often go one step farther, each time, until they trample all over the rights of their target.

Scenario: Your laptop/PDA/USB stick/any storage device is detained. No problem, you've employed unbreakable encryption, right? Wrong. They hold you, and work on you. You're the weak link in the security chain, so that's what they attack.

This is admittedly an extreme example, but read any of numerous examples of torture cases. The accused was already guilty in the eyes of their abusers. The security apparatus "knows" it to be true. In the final analysis they get you to "admit" your guilt, or they prove themselves wrong and brush it all off in the name of "defending" their master's interests.

Remember all the Nazis at Nuremburg? They all said, every last one, that they were only following orders. Funny how the entire German Fourth Reich was run entirely by one man at the top, the only one apparently who believed in oppression. Conveniently for the accused Hitler was dead by then.

The only true security is in having a public set of principles, of lines you won't cross. Then defend those principles. If they are the right sort of principles then you will attract strong people to you. Your friends become your defenders.

Encription is good but not fool proof.

http://citp.princeton.edu/memory/

Protect out constitutional rights.