It wasn't a one night stand that Wales had with Marsden. Even he didn't say that, and neither did she. Have some respect.

Excellent piece. Not many news items on this duel between anon and scientology have been balanced thus far. I think yours is.

Thankyou for providing the link to the St. P subpage, it's very interesting. That 1980 Pulitzer prize series will take me an hour to read!

Scientology complains about bomb threats, when in fact the most likely scenario is they've made the bomb threats against themselves to enable them to accuse critics of being "terrorists". They manufactured bomb threats in the past in their attempt to destroy the life of a journalist (google "operation freakout")

Great article, I found the info on the St. Peters site very thorough. Also check out www.Xenu.net for Scientology internal documents that have been leaked.

As a Scientology parishioner, I have gotten to endure the “anonymous” attacks on my church. So why the big lie about it’s not against the members of Scientology? The only evil wrong-doers “anonymous” is facing up to are themselves in a mirror. You’re cowards. I still go to my church. I’m not a coward. I’m still doing Scientology. And please don’t come back with the generality “It’s the church!” Meaning me, but you want to make it out that there is a big bugaboo somewhere you are talking about. Put up or shut up on your allegations. And that doesn’t more invective for me.

When scieno's claim that it is the church attacking, the general public needs to remember that it is the abusive corporation that is behind the church and its abuses that is being protested. It is NOT the parishioners. If you want to "do scientology", that's fine, but how can you support their abuses of their own 'parishioners'? Learn more about your "church" before spouting off. Most of the info that is available to the rest of us on the internet is NOT available to YOU until you get to OTIII. And I'm afraid they will may you pay for that. I got my info for free.

I AM a parishioner and YOU ARE attacking me. Will Smith can't even say he's not a Scientologist, which it's known he's not, without flaming invective!

Hey, anonymous scientologist. I can only speak for myself, but I know one reason I have trouble taking online Scientologists seriously is that they tend to be unable to enunciate clearly.

When you say "And that doesn't more invective for me.", I've got to question your literacy. While you are using the word "invective", suggesting that you have a good vocabulary, you can't seem to use it in a sentence. "Invective" is either a noun or an adjective, but it appears you're trying to use it as a verb.

Also, who says "bugaboo" anymore?

I know this is the internet, and people tend to be lax with their grammar and syntax, but for an emotionally charged topic like this, it would behoove you to take some time to proofread your comments, assuming you want to be taken seriously.

It is a real shame that bomb threats, death threats, costing local businesses thousands of dollars by sending food and other items COD to Churches of Scientology are dismissed as not really a big deal and "if true". Scientologists report what is happening to them including harassment and thousands of pictures and videos. I can not come to the Church on a weekend without having photos taken and posted on the net without my permission, yet you say that Scientologists take a couple of pictures of protestors and it is "harassment". Where is the fair, unbaised reporting.
Yes, and do google "Operation Snow White" and read all about it from the early 1970's and then read all about the Church reform and people being fired who did this or were involved. That was over 30 years ago and caused a major reformation and reorganization of the Church. It is a good example of what was done to change and reform.
If you are going to complain about the Church of Scientology could we at least find current news??
A Scientologist parent

I know things are serious for you today. Did you try your usual act of kicking a cat?

"I know this is the internet, and people tend to be lax with their grammar and syntax, but for an emotionally charged topic like this, it would behoove you to take some time to proofread your comments, assuming you want to be taken seriously."

Scientologist Parent,
"Fair Game" is still an active Scientology tenet, if not in name, definitely in practice.

How many peaceful protesters were bullbaited, harassed, and photographed this week? For what, excersizing their right to peaceful assembly?

What about Jenna Miscavige who was followed by Scientology members last week, because she wanted to leave the cult for good?

Blow the tech and live with joy on the outside!
The commodores ship is sinking!

Ok, lets say Snow White is the past and there was reform ok. Let's talk about the issues of today. Could a pro-Scientology person explain why they get 80% tax exempt for what they pay the church, but no other religion can? And now, how this is acceptable in a country where all should be equal, do you think all religions should get this 80% as well?

A non-profit organization cannot play politics under the article 501 I believe, which is CoS, Narconon, CCHR and so on. So why is it that you can publicly see emails now only meant for CCHR eyes that shows the CCHR actively being involved with politics and misrepresentation and email bombing news organizations to make it seem that their ponts are heard? Does this not fall outside of 501?

Next issue of today: There are reports of child abuse the church commits. Good for people the church helps feel better and so on. But if the same church that can help you out and preaches the rights of man also forces children labor don't you have a problem with that? Or question it at least?

Sure many religions request a tithe, however, none are required to attend mass....so why does Co$ have fixed donations for all members? See difference here request and require, please defend the difference.

Disconnection. Breaks up families. That is, until it becomes bad PR and then the church gets the families in contact again, with someone supervising mind you.

And last. Why is it that every sinlge ex member of the church. EVERY SINGLE ONE that speaks publicly about their former religion all tell the exact same stories? Every single one talks about the child labor, the disconnection, the huge fees, the abuse, the neglect, the pain, the mental abuse, the denial of medical care, the blame the church puts on its members instead of itself when something goes wrong. Why do they ALL tell the exact same story? Open your eyes people. They can't all possibly be telling the same lie can they?

Fine, CoS has helped people. Great. But you cannot deny every single thing its critics have said can you? Even taken with a grain of salt something has got to stick, the facts are just too numerous. More reform is needed not for anonymous' sake, but for its own members.

Oh, that's SO reasonable. So, why are you attacking the rank and file like me?

Anonymous gives you opportunity to express ANTAGONISM. Do you know the feeling? If you want to express ANTAGONISM, then Anonymous will cloak you in anonymity with mask on your face an a poster in your hand. Its hard core members phone the Church with death threats. And there is some organization at its core because a DDoS attack can't be done from a single computer. It uses phrases to rouse expression of ANTAGONISM such as "religion is free".

Yes, exactly. Goodbye.

What is antagonistic about a sign that says
"Religion is free"?

Aren't all religions free? Or am I mistaken?

Sorry, my mistake, $cientology is the only "religion" that isn't.

Go figure.

"Put up or shut up on your allegations"

Don't worry Anon is doing everything it can to shed light on the church. Officials have been contacted, a full fledged investigation is coming, don't worry. Anon is putting up, but won't shut up.

And Anonymous scientologist. My questions werent atacking the rank and file. If you want to be attacked personally theres much easier ways than your relgion; since you are just sounding like an asshole, religion aside. You are one of the few pissing and screaming here...well until I just called you an asshole. But I won't attack again, something Hubbard's doctrine says to never stop doing.

Nothing is ever going to change the guaranteed right in America for Scientologists to worship in their religion as they please. Therefore, nothing is ever going to make the Church of Scientology go away, even if their tax-exempt status is someday revoked (which isn't likely).

And so far history has shown that each time Scientology gets knocked down, it gets back up again and rebuilds itself, bigger and stronger each time. No amount of insane hatred, stupid pranks, lie-filled websites, and lame pickets outside churches are ever going to change anything. If you can't get that through your head, you are in denial.

I keep hearing old-school critics of the Church crowing that Scientology is now "close to collapse", but they're living in a total online fantasy world. The internet has become their entire world, so when they see dozens of new sites and blogs popping up ridiculing the CoS, that represents "victory" to them. Because they're cyber-junkies. (The only sex they ever get is most likely cyber-sex as well.)

Scientology actually only needs a small amount of new recruits at any given time, and recruiting is actually UP because of all the controversy, believe it or not. So keep protesting and keep up the good work, smarties! Controversy sells books, and this is the best promotion for the new Scientology Basics books that anyone could ask for :)

Bravo, Cringe.

You win. "Scientology v. Anonymous" IS the best comment bait tactic!

Your check for $5 is in the mail. Now about the X-prize...

WHAT KIND OF "RELIGION" sends an armed private investigator into a crowd of young, peaceful protesters?

www.whyweprotest.net/

scientology is glossy on the outside and rotten to the core.

Whether or not fair game is still practised, disconnection certainly is. $cientology has been tearing up families since 1952. The world will know the awful things $cientology has done. You can't disconecct the truth. We don't need to destroy $cientology. We will simply expose it to the world for what it is. $cientology will destroy itself.

How predictable, another comments section littered with a fiery argument between Scientologists and Anonymous.

If you want to know the reality of Scientology, just read people's stories. Start at exscientologykids.com for a heartbreaking look at people who have grown up in Scientology, lived it, loved it, and been discarded by it. These young people often have family still in the cult, who they still love and care for.

Remember, Scientologists are the victims of Scientology too. Noah Lottick, Lisa McPherson, Eli Perkins, were all Scientologists.

Lord knows I became a Muslim after 9/11 because of the controversy!

The most effective "smart bomb" to be employed against repressive regimes might be a synergistic blend of One Laptop Per Child, covert wireless routing, solar power, digital recording, and wikis.

Imagine if, rather than Bibles, some interested organization started smuggling in portable, open internet nodes. They'd boot to something totally anarchic (I propose "Grand Theft Auto XIII - World Edition"), but also support capture & free exchange of text, audio, video.

Political ignorance ended.

Scientology has a history of using their own members to gain postive PR such as "recommending" that they each person purchase Ron's books in order to keep him the best seller's list.

These phone calls and death threats are all internally connected to people in the church.

Don't believe them.

The purpose of the protests by Anonymous has never been to attack the everyday parishioner of Scientology. To attack those who follow the writings and practices of Scientology would violate the very tenet of our philosophy. You may think we are protesting because we hate you. That is the furthest thing from the truth. We do this because we care and we love. Though we may not have be confronted by Scientology, forced to experience the pain of a disconnection, been declared SPs, or even personally known someone in Scientology who's been forced to suffer for it, we still stand resolute.
We believe that all men are on the most basic level good individuals. We believe that evil can only triumph when good men and women stand by and do nothing. We cannot bear the thought of standing by and doing nothing, with the knowledge that in the greatest nation on earth, children are made to labor and denied a proper education, men and women are fleeced out of their life savings, women are denied their reproductive rights and forced into abortions, and the very laws of this country are flagrantly violated.
When a critic comes forth and the only response an organization can give is deceit, ignorance, hate... When the only response is to not just assume, but 'know' that the critic is a criminal, a monster, a wifebeater, a child molester, without ever knowing or showing any proof....

Well what happens when you don't know the person who's criticizing you? When you can't send private investigators to harass them, their families, their places of business, their friends, their pasts? What happens when you cannot attack the attacker? Do you ignore them? Can you? What happens when you can't? What happens when you are forced to confront the criticisms brought to light? Can you face them with an open heart and honest face?

You say that all these accusations are in the past. That operation snow white, operation freakout, the fair game policy, and the harassment of Paulette Cooper was in the past and the church has since changed and reformed. Ok, I'll ignore those for a moment. Lets look at the 90's and 00's. They sued the "Cult Awareness Network" into bankruptcy, took their name, and now run a Scientologist organization/phone center in its place. They harassed critic Bob Minton into fearing for his life and silence. They sued Time magazine for their early 90's article, which they lost and cost the paper millions of dollars. In 1988 ten members of the church, including the then president Heber Jentzsch, were arrested and charged with multiple crimes before paying a 1 million dollar bail and then jumping bail to flee the country. The church then spent 14 years fighting those charges before they were dropped through pure attrition. The church has made it a habit of paying/hiring/bribing local police officers, including those in london, clearwater florida, and (just this past week) the Dekalb county police department in Atlanta.

The harassment the Church of Scientology has visited upon it's critics and former members is ..... insane to be honest. Watch the BBC's Panorama if you have any doubts about what type of harassment any critics or members of the media might endure. You'll get a small sampling. Constant surveilence, being followed by cars wherever you drive, having your friends and relatives harassed, being lied to, being fed false information, being unable to speak with another critic without being followed, interupted, fed lies and misinformation, dead-agenting (google that), and that's just the start.
The former mayor of Clearwater was accused of corruption, had fliers spread around town with flat out lies about him, called a religious bigot, had women call his wife saying he was having an affair.
At at least one protest by anonymous, there was a man flashing a gun holster at protestors amongst the crowd. They hired the Dekalb county sheriffs department to harass and arrest protestors and ticket cards that honked in support, despite that being completely againt the law. The law against 'noise' complaints, states that the noise must be at least 60 seconds in length, but 2-3 second honks in support of the protestors earned an instant ticket. Two protestors were arrested for reading speeches to the crowd on megaphones, in blantant violation of their first ammendment rights.

This level of paranoia, harassment, intimidation, criminal behavior is maddening, and in any free and democratic society cannot be tolerated. The treatment of its members, its critics, the media, the government can never be allowed to continue. So we protest, we support, we do what we can to help those who cannot help themselves. We call on our elected officials to take a stance against the organization, to protect the people within it. We call on the police departments and other law enforcement agencies to invesitgate the illegal activities and tax violations. We call on the families who have been 'disconnected' to not give up hope. As always, we call on the people who cannot stand to be quiet any longer to stand with us, and shout out to the world that religion is free, belief is free, but the Church of Scientology could cost you everything.

We are Anonymous

We are Legion

We do not forgive

We do not forget

We stand on the bridge and no one may pass

We are united as one, divided by zero

To the Scientologists who want to continue the debate, first read the Open Letter to Scientologists posted here:
http://www.itsyourtimes.com/?q=node/3528

and then come back and tell us what you're going to do to take responsibility.
Thanks

It's no coincidence that many of the anagrams for "Church of Scientology" have "cult" in them.

Anonymous: I understand that you feel you are fighting for justice but you are on the wrong side on this one. Maybe a decade or three ago, you may have had a point. Those things were changed. The management, the "corporation" behind Scientology are all well intentioned hard working people now. If they thought something needed to change for their members they would do it in a flash.

These bomb and death threats against innocent church members are happening. I have a son working there and I know. The members just want to go to their classes/counselling/Sunday services. Sunday services have always been free. Tithing is for one on one counselling or classes. It is voluntary. You will not meet a nicer bunch of people than the Scientologists.

Understandably, they're not so very friendly to the media as the media is so obviously biased against them. 90% of ex-Scientologists have only good things to say about Scientology but they don't feel a need to get on the 9:00 news saying so; especially when they know the very negative media will chew them up like pirhana. The "Cult Awareness Network" kidnapped a Scientology employee friend of mine "Joanie" and their staff beat and raped her and they called it "deprogramming". When she escaped from these "deprogrammers" and found out that her family had paid these people to do this to her she "disconnected" from her family against the advice of the Church who wanted her to "handle" her family. The church does not separate families, individuals separate when their lives and/or sanity is at risk by actions of their family: example, Joanie. Joanie was a young, pretty dark haired girl before this happened. She is currently (20 years later) on the staff of Scientology and was instrumental in bankrupting the Cult Awareness Network and then Scientology purchasing them. They were treated far more graciously than they treated her. There are MANY such stories and this is why the Church is so harsh with critics; some of these critics have a long history of brutality to Scientologists. The Sci try to protect their own. Many such "deprogrammers" were prosecuted, went to jail and are now out again as "critics" of Scientology. No Scientologist or Sci staff would ever hire an investigator with a gun to go into a crowd of protestors, it just isn't their style. That was probably a "critic" of Scientology trying to make Sci look bad. These "critics" are relentless.

The Time magazine article was full of lies and slander which is why the church wouldn't let it go.

The rest of your allegations are completely unfounded in the current church of Sci. If Anonymous actually has good intentions why don't you find an actual and current problem to fix instead of bashing peaceful church going people?

I am already OT3 and the bullshit on the xenu, etc site IS bullshit, intended only to make Scientology look bad. None of that is for real. Anonymous is being "played" by the Sci critics but I forgive you because Scientology believes that "Man (and woman) is basically good, not evil." Even the media.

Also, your current goal regarding Scientology is unrealistic. Scientology has grown in leaps and bounds with mostly bad internet for over 10 years. No matter how bad the internet PR, it will not slow Scientology's growth. There are many more Scientologists than you know. Your grocer, your Starbucks barista, your hairsylist all may Scientologists as there are many millions of Scientologists in LA alone. Some are active and some are not, but they are still Scientologists at heart. I have to "peace" now.

The truth of the matter is the Church of Scientology as it currently is has to reform or it will destroy itself.

I suggest that management instead of harassing the critics, should actually look at what they are doing that is causing all of this and yes they should communicate with critics as well to ask what reforms are needed.

Other than just assuming that they are always right and that everyone else must be wrong.

What is called a Service Facsimile in Scientology terminology.

Well I'm still waiting for an accusation that's actually true and isn't ancient history. ....waiting. If you can come up with something that's real, as opposed to twisting things to make them look bad when they aren't, then it will be immediately addressed.

By the way, when were you last in a Sci church?
The church is GREAT as it currently is.

I read this "open letter to Scientologists" and in response to where it says to read what is on the internet, I have this to say. When I was introduced to Scientology, I did just that and then checked it all out for myself by asking hard questions. I found that there was of course a certain amount of truth behind these stories. I am almost amused as to the discussion of the Church's litigious ways in response to their being harassed by religious bigots, self-serving journalism much of which has been sponsored very quietly by psychopharmaceuticals who simply worship their profit line. To anyone who doesn't understand why pharmaceuticals would sponsor religious bigotry I recommend googling "psychiatry psychotropics lobotomies" or "psychiatry psychotropics death" to understand and learn that psychiatry is still performing ECT, lobotomies and psychotropics are pretty much chemical lobotomies. Anonymous is only rehashing the same old stuff. As to video recording of protestors this is simply because incidents have occurred in the past and because certain Anonymous have posted suggestions that Scientologists would try to infiltrate the protest with guns, etc. and because in the past peaceful protestors did actually end up killing church parishioners. Much of what they are protesting about long ago events regarding overzealous members reacting to religious bigotry who stepped over the line and for which substantial policies were subsequently put in place by the church.

The belief that the church has changed would be much more widely accepted if it were not for the denial of its past actions, the flat out lies it disseminates, and it were more willing to confront with honest intentions the criticisms of others. If they are so well intentioned, and the ‘corporation’ is so benign, then why are the 1023 tax forms held in secret? If I were to donate $1 to my local church, with little effort I could find out exactly where that $1 went. Contrary to the IRSs own rules and regulations, those 1023 forms are hidden and not available for public viewing. The financial documents of the church are sealed, and would take “an Freedom of Information Act request� to be viewed. No church in the United States has that ‘privellege’.

If the Time magazine was so full of lies and slander, why when suing for 400 million dollars did the US courts flat out dismiss the case, not only initially, but on multiple appeals? What specifically was a lie in that article, and what was slander?

If you were familiar with the Cult Awareness network, you’d know that adult deprogramming is indeed illegal in this country, however in a 60 minutes interview, the members of CAN denied ever being involved with adult deprogramming, and it was a single individual Rick Ross who had deprogrammed Jason Scott. This, lead by CoS lawyers, led to the lawsuit (along with 50 OTHER lawsuits) that drove CAN into bankruptcy. To add insult to injury, CoS purchased the CAN name and phone number in bankruptcy court, so now anyone who goes to CAN for help with a cult, even if they have concerns about Scientology, will get a Scientologist on the phone.

There aren’t just one or two, there are hundreds of cases of disconnection from families due to Scientology. Good people, good families, who were disconnected for no other reason that the families had concerns about Scientology. April 12th there will be another protest, this one with the theme of Re-Connection. Getting familes back together. Even David Miscaviges’s own neice, Jenna Miscavige Hill, was forced into Sea Org after her parents left, put thru the most grueling conditions, and when she couldn’t measure up to their insane standards she left. Read some of her stories at ‘ex-scientologistkids.com’, and you’ll find some of the most horrific stories of what children are forced to endure. Not only in the COS, but with the policy of disconnection. This is not something ten years ago. This is this year, and now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenna_Miscavige_Hill

As for the bomb threats, there was a DVD distributed by the Church of Scientology with a video they claimed was pulled from youtube. Claiming these bomb threats came from anonymous. Here’s the thing…. The quality of the dvd video put out by the CoS, was of MUCH higher quality than could be obtained from youtube. It’s visibly better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2lQhiNQ008 Now, I’m no expert at video editing, production values, or anything of that sort. But I am computer literate. For those of you who are not, I’ll use this simple comparison. You ever make a copy of something on a copier? Never quite as sharp as the original is it? In fact it’s impossible to get a higher quality copy, than the original. When something is put onto the youtube flv format, it’s quality is significantly reduced. The only way to have a higher quality version than youtube has…. well it to have the original before it was posted on youtube. Which would only be possible, if CoS was the one who manufactured that video. This is nothing new. They’ve done it before, with the most prominent example being that of Paulette Cooper, but they’ve repeated that multiple times. Not only that but Anon as a whole has rejected these claims, saying it goes against the very nature of Anon to make violent threats.

And I had to laugh at your comment about a Starbuck barista. Did you know when the Church in Clearwater tried to get an injuction from the courts it listed several peoples names. It obtained these names by getting them from license plates of people who had parked on that street. One of them, a Starbucks employee, who had never heard of Anon, and was never involved in the protest. She was just parked on the street because she worked there. Her reaction to being named a 'terrorist and religious bigot'; "What?"

Not only was there a man claiming to be a PI at the LA rally, but he was filmed entering and leaving the Church. If he was amongst the protest, he would never have been allowed anywhere near that building by the extensive security that was in place. Let me make it clear. The man had a gun. He was flashing that weapon to multiple people in the course of a peaceful protest. This was reported to the police, to whom he showed a permit. He was filmed entering, and exiting, the Church of Scientology unhindered. Any claim he was not associated with the Church in some way shape or form is a blatant and flagrant lie. Displaying your firearm to individuals is a threatening action. Threatening someone with a firearm is a crime. It is an act of intimidation and fear, which can be summed up in a single word. Terrorism- (noun) -the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. This is what the CoS did to the people of the LA protests. Want to know what they did in return? A truly brave Anon, unhindered by fear, held a sign by that man with the gun, that read “this man has a gun� with a big arrow pointing to him. To let all know this man was dangerous. That’s not just brave. That was Epic.

And that is what the Church of Scientology is facing.

Ok, I apologise for the junk in my previous post. I didn't know using MS Word would create those junk characters when posting.

I'm not doubting there is needed reform in the field of psychiatry. There's too many kids who need help who are just drugged up and sent off in a daze. But the idea that lobotomies are a regular occurrence is asburd an patently untrue. We do have a major problem in this country with drug companies overcharging for vital medication while doctors shove placebo's down our throats and call it a quick fix. But there are medications, such as anti-eplilepics or anti-psychotics that keep people functioning normally. Flat out throwing out all of the psychiatric community isn't the answer. Continuing to rely on medications for children isn't the answer either.

And for the record when the hell did peaceful protestors EVER kill a Scientologist? That isn't just a bold statement, that's a classic bull-baiting or dead-agenting tactic. If you cant back that up with SOMETHING your just feeding the beast and insulting everyone intelligence with a flat out lie.

To all the Scientologists, please, your families miss you. Call them, and even if you weren't forced to "disconnect", or did so by choice, at least let them know that you're alive and well. They still care, and they worry, because there are enough cases to make anyone do so. I know I miss my precious daughter every night when I read her disconnection letter.

As I have posted in other comments as a Scientologist I don't necessarily find that all Anonymous have the same intentions and purposes.
First off I actually think there are some very bright kids in this group. I can identify with them wanting to make a change even if that change is not exactly the one I would be directing them to.

However, there does exist a fairly "dark side" to this "force". a pretty intense one that can be found in the youtube commentary and on sites like partyvan site with links to Chanology. These are the guys who have been busy promoting those very things that the Church has been protesting in those videos. I have seen with my own eyes not just a couple, but hundreds of calls for violence, additional illegal web attacks, and so on. These things cannot be denied as they are available to view by anyone on the web. Just look at the Anonymous youtube video that goes over their rules for protests. Granted there are many in Anonymous who try and handle the wilder faction. There are many that question these more intense few and try and keep some peace. However, in these cases they cannot deny what exists within their own ranks.

Another thing I would like to point out is in reference to what one of the earlier commentors said. It was stated that all the ex-Sceintologists are saying the same things in reference to child labor violations, nefarious disconnection actions and more thus making their claims valid. It has also been stated that rank and file Scientologists taking exception to their claims is not valid as they don't know about all the illegal activity of the upper management.

Here is the inconsistency. If the rank and file don't know anything about the diabolical schemes how do the ex-scientologists? How do these arguably 100 or so vocal ex-scientology critics magically come to find themselves so superior in intellect, observation and access that the million other Scientologists walk about in sometype of duped fog oblivious to all that is going on? How have these individuals risen to the status of supreme judges with keen deduction and impeccable moral integrity so as to call out the faults of everyone else?

If I were a critic the only argument I could come up with is that the million are in some type of mass hysteria mind funk including myself. That somehow L Ron Hubbard was so devious that he could assit people to be happier, do better in life, communicate better, take more responsibility and, as staff, dedicate their lives to helping others while hypnotizing the lot of them so they weren't really actually being so self determined. I am afraid it would take a genius that no mortal man would posses it would require someone on the order of Merlin the Magician.

So if one cares to look he can start to spot the weaknesses and contradiction of some of this testimony. This does not mean that some ex-Scientologist doesn't haves a gripe about some handling or that another staff member made a mistake in handling them. There is probably some smaller level of truth in their statements. However, that truth is so buried under pretenses, irresponsibilities, hyper criticism and missing information that no one can discern much other than that they are unhappy about the Church of Scientology. Another point I have made regarding their beef with disconnection is that this is a very, very, very seldom used tool in Scientology and there is a host of relationship handlings that come before this is ever considered. The idea of not wanting to communicate with someone else is also not unique with Scientology. Guess what? people do it every day. It is just discussed in detail and is given in combination with everything else I mentioned to handle relationships. In all the years I have been a Scientologist I have maybe run across two people who used it.

Another point to consider is that they were disconnected from. Someone felt so strongly that they felt a need to not communicate with them anymore despite all efforts at addressing the problem. If these critics were so upset at being disconnected from than they would handle whatever it was that caused the severance in the first place. This is an option yet they don't take it. I am afraid this is a comment more on their irresonsibility than anthing else.

Holy Cow!

bgodley, you, a Scientologist admits disconnection is a tool used by the church! Thank you so much, time to spread this info to the nets.

So, if it is indeed used by the church like you say rarely, then wouldn't that possibly lead to I dunno, the 100 critics you mentioned who are Ex's? Why just last week did a mother try desperately to get in contac twith her daughter? The church refused allowing her access to her family until she threatened to join the protest in LA. Then, magically she got to have lunch with her daughter, while mind you being watched over by her superior of course who said they had to be in a picture together having fun and that she would not go protest. If she did not get in the pic, or go to the protest the church told her her daughter would not be allowed to see her again.

This was told to her by the supervisor, not the daughter....so, how is it that a totally good church does something like this, to any family?

CoS helps people sure, by their own statements, great! Good for those people, we do not protest for or against these folks. Its for the people who are treated badly, or disconnected, or abused and told its their fault, or forced to get an abortion, even if only a few.

By the way, I find it funny the one poster says there are millions of Scientologists in LA...thats funny, why is it then the government estimates the real number worldwide is closer to 50,000. Thats a lot less than a million and it includes the whole world.

If anonymous is so dangerous, where were the attacks on Scientology on the last two protest days? Where is the proof from police? Where are the connections to those named in the Clearwater restraining order and any violent acts? What happenned with that bomb threat, with the harmless suitcase with a bible in it? So strange that Scientology cameras outside their buildings didn't manage to capture anything.

What kind of church sues critics?

What kind of church hires PI's to investigate those who speak out?

What kind of church targets the rich, if they're so interested in bettering peoples lives?

What kind of church allows their members to die, and then sues those who preside over the autopsy when it doesn't go in their favour?

No kind of church.

We have heard your lies, and your propaganda, but when the documented truth is on the side of Anonymous, you are being as blind as you accuse us of.

Google Free Tech. Google xenutv, visit Enturbulation, visit clambake, and when you do, try and do it without the preformed notion that Anonymous are criminals or terrorists.

So wait a minute. I'm new to this whole conflict. I saw the whole Jenna thing about the new book that came out and the PR lady from the Church claimed that "disconnection" was a lie and doesn't happen.

Now here you are a Scientologist claiming that "its not used that often"

So it's not a lie then? Why can't I get straight answers about Scientology from a Scientologist? You guys seem to contradict yourselves quite often.

This is what I am talking about

7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to
their family if they don't support the religion?

'This allegation is not only false; it is the opposite of what the
Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw

Karin Pouw is some PR person for the church.

Carl. Disconnection is still practised. I'm not allowed to see my son. He turned 27 last week. Despite repeated requests to the 'church', I haven't seen him in 11 years.

Wow. There have been ridiculous arguments in the previous posts, but bgodley's last paragraph takes the cake. Now he's blaming the victim!
To paraphrase: A Sincere Scientologist, who's Tried Very Hard to Keep Peace in his or her Family, and Tried Everything Else First, is forced by Extreme Conditions to disconnect. Therefore, it's the Family's Fault, and if the Family had any Sense, it would say many Mea Culpas and Examine Itself in order to Reform. After all, disconnection cannot possibly be the Sincere Scientologist's Fault.

Does it strike anyone else that there's a good deal of paranoia here, on both sides, or am I the only one who senses it?

Wow, the infamous bgodley. I've seen you in other forums, and I'm quite pleased you've responded to my posts here. Nothing quite like getting the attention of the head troll.

You've stated, and others have claimed, that partyvan and the other sites have been actively promoting violence against Scientologists. I've extensively gone thru that site. And other sites connected to it. No where, in any context, do they actively promote violence. They is discussion about how to get the media's attention thru peaceful means, ways to encourage our local politicians to take action against the Church as a corporation, and reports of the thousands around the world who protested. There's also documentation of the harassment Anonymous has endured. PIs following people home, lawsuits against people who parked on the street, the egregious abuses by the corrupt Dekalb County Sheriffs department at the Atlanta protest, the man flashing the gun at the LA protest.

No Anonymous has attacked a Scientologist. They have stuck by their promise, their vow, that no Scientologist will be physically harmed. Meanwhile, Scientologists released personal information concerning several members of Anonymous in a blatant violation of the law.

As for why only ex members are claiming abuse, I'm not insinuating that the other memebers of Scientology are blind or ignorant. Far from it. I would imagine that many peoples experiences with Scientology are quite positive. If they weren't, how could you recruit anyone not born into Scientology? As many join, I'm sure their given nothing but the most positive reinforcement for continuing.

I'm sure you have heard of "freeloaders debt". Basically, to make the auditing and courses more affordable, people work for the Church in some capacity. Being auditors themselves, working in an administrative fashion, doing manual labor for the church, ect ect ect. Thus they are given these courses and sessions as a substantial discount. However, the 'discount' they are given is closely recorded. If someone were to ever leave Scientology, they would be given a bill for the difference and forced to pay that 'freeloaders debt'. How much? In the 70's and 80's one such individual who left the church, Larry Wollersheim, accumulated a 'freeloaders debt' of $50,000. That would be the equivalent of several hundred thousand today. Since the Church spent 22 years fighting that case, even going as far as to claim that the policies of "Fair Game" and disconnection were protected under the first amendment as religious practices, and because multiple people who have recently left have confirmed what he endured was not only commonplace then, but commonplace today, I'll use his case as an example. After he had joined he spent several years building his photography business, working for the church, ect ect. However when he began having problems, and wanted to leave the church, he was compelled to join Sea Org, placed in a ship off the California coast and held 18 hours a day in the most deplorable conditions. He was denied proper medical treatment, and when he tried to escape, he was physically restrained and forcibly held captive. As for his photography business, when he tried to leave the church, all Scientologist employees quit, all his customers who were Scientologists refused to use his business, and Scientologists who had placed orders with him or owed him money for services rendered refused to pay, driving him into bankruptcy. He was compelled to leave his wife and family, put under more and more stress. Basically, he was trapped psycologically from leaving, because he was aware before he left of all these factors. He was threatened with freeloaders debt, faced the ruin of his business, the loss of his family. Its not like they tell you these things before you join. They tell you "Oh you can do these things in Sea Org", but fail to mention you are never given a choice in where you are assigned in Sea Org. They offer you a discount, but never tell you you'll owe that money if you ever leave.

It's a process, of indoctrinating members, building them up into the community, slowly cutting away their external support systems, and before they realize it they are trapped. So trapped that if they want to leave, they'll lose everything.

It's also patently absurd to think that you would ever put the celebrities who are in Scientology through the same treatment you would an everyday member. By giving them only the best treatment, you have famous spokesmen to praise you, without them ever seeing the dark side of Scientology. I doubt Mr. Cruise or Mr. Travolta has ever been labeled PTS or sent to RPF. Please google those terms if your not familar with them

In a quote from 'ex-scientologykids.com' I'll say this:"Wait, so you're saying that a person has to be currently suffering abuse in order to be qualified to talk about abuse? So no one should discuss or criticize events in their past, only their present? So if I was molested as a child, and I wanted to tell my story, I'd have to go find someone to molest me now? Dude. That makes no sense."

You've failed to address the fake bomb threats, the intimidation tactics used by the church, the extraordinary tax-exempt status the church has that no other religion does.

You claim threats of physical violence against the church with no proof or backing of legitimate sources. The only threats of physical violence came from Scientology at the protests, not Anonymous.

The one Youtube video you DO provide as evidence, is of lesser quality video than the dvd of the same video which you produced and provided. Basically, that means you created the dvd of a bomb threat first, then posted that threat on youtube to discredit Anonymous. Fake bomb threats are against the law, in case you weren't aware.

You fail to address the abuses suffered by members in the past and the present. You claim there has been changes in the church so that these things dont happen anymore, but they continue, and they are getting worse.

You have not addressed any of the concerns of the good citizens here without lies, slander, dead-agenting, or ignorance. "Always attack, never defend" will not work forever. Anonymous has been forthcoming with all criticisms, and we admit the DoS attacks and black-faxing did occur. However, with just a few simple words from the one we know as "Wise Beard Man", Mark Bunker, Anonymous as a whole has abandoned those tactics. We realize that to truely be effective, to be taken seriously, to have our message heard, the only way to do so is thru peaceful protest, lobbying our legislators, viral marketing, and working to gain the media's attention.

So we stand waiting a true and honest response from Scientology. Without lies, without deception.

We are Anonymous

We do not forgive

We do not forget

We are united as one, divided by zero

We are here.

What a funny article. Not to mention the even funnier posts by the people who --- I guess for lack of something constructive to do --- spend their free time making trouble. It is almost as if these so-called 'critics' of 'Scientology' see life as a corporeal video/computer game. Were it not for the fact that they are wasting everyone's time and the taxpayer's dollars, all of this would be entirely laughable. As it is, it's pretty funny.

I have read a good bit of Hubbard's works. I've also listened to a goodly number of his lectures. I've read and heard some stuff I think is worth reading and understanding. Occasionally I read things which lead me to believe that Hubbard didn't understand something he was critiquing ... such as the time he ridiculed Dale Carnegie's writings. Like every writer I've ever read, the test is not whether he's wrong sometimes, but whether he's worth the effort, all things considered. And, based upon what I've read, reading Hubbard's public works and listening to his public lectures is valuable. In fact, I think I've gained more from reading and listening to Hubbard -- a lot more, in fact -- than from reading and studying any other single writer, thinker or philsopher I've read, and I've read a lot.

What is funny about these persistent critics, is that, however, they don't seem to be able to distinguish between what Hubbard wrote and lectured, and the "Church of Scientology". No where that I've ever seen does Hubbard say you've got to be a "member" of the "Church of Scientology" in order to read, listen to, or understand his most basic and most important works.

So, all this hullabaloo about the 'Church' did this, and the 'Church' did that, and blah, blah, blah, is really beside the point if what you're looking for is a way to improve your life, or simply if you're looking to understand a different point of view.

So, it is worth wondering ... what would it matter if these critics of the 'Church' succeeded in eradicating the 'Church' from the face of the Earth? Then what? Would this make Hubbard's works any less, or any more, valuable? Obviously not. Would this prevent other people from studying Hubbard's works and then starting ANOTHER 'Church of Scientology'? Obviously not. Would the (hypothesized) destruction of the 'Church' mean that, or prove that, Hubbard's works were false, not true, or not worth studying? Obviously not. All it would mean is that one organization did not exist. But, so what? The 'Church of Scientology' is not Scientology. Scientology is what Hubbard wrote and lectured. And, that is ALL Scientology will ever be.

So, I say, go ahead and waste your time making trouble for the Church of Scientology if you want to. A bigger waste of time I cannot imagine, because, even if you were to succeed (fat chance) in causing the Church of Scientology to shut its collective doors ... what is absolutely true that you can do nothing about, is that Scientology (Hubbard's writings and lectures) would still be there for people to read, understand and either agree with or not. And, the only way you can prevent THAT is to invoke the horrors of George Orwell's "1984" and take to burning books and imprisoning people for having the temerity to think for themselves.

Of course, if you advocated THAT (or do you?), then it would be clear that it is not the Church of Scientology, but YOU who are intent upon harming and enslaving those who disagree with you.

Hey Joe, you cannot seperate Hubbard and Scientology. Thatd be like seperating Jesus and Christianity. Joseph Smith from Mormoms. Muhammad from Islam. Get it?

Now, the church is what is being protested and fought not because of what a dead author once said, but because of the crimes it commits, mostly against its own.

You say we waste tax dollars? How about the tax dollars Scientologists dont have to spend on training? You know no other religion gets that right? an 80% tax exemption? no other religion gets it. So who is costing more tax $$$, anonymous, or the taxes not being paid by Scientology??

Oh, and there is documented evidence that Scientology's front groups like CCHR, actually are breaking the rules of what can be considered 501 tax exempt by playing politics. So how bout that tax money the governments of the world dont get?

If Anon is successful in getting the speical tax exemption revoked the money America will get from that extra taxes will pay for all our troubles.

Don't worry though, thanks to Anonymous investigations are opening world wide into Scientology and what they do. Members are being contacted by state authorities, Amnesty International and so on.

Psst. Joe. None of us really care about Hubbard's material as far as Dianetics or the OT levels or the lectures he gives publicly. What we're against is the policies of the CoS, as many people have already outlined.

Many of these aren't included in Hubbard's public material. They play disconnection, the RPF, and the conditions of the Sea Org pretty close to the vest.

So, if the CoS closes its doors because of us, or better yet if we're able to prompt a serious in-depth federal investigation, then yes, we will have succeeded. You can read Dianetics and believe in galactic overlords and alien spirits that stick to the bodies of the living all you want. I don't care. As long as you're not part of an organization that gives you free rein to "trick, sue, lie to and destroy" its critics, or forces you to disconnect from anyone you know that's openly critical of the church, I'll be perfectly happy, thanks.

I can't say that I am a big fan of organised religion as a whole and I'm certainly not a Scientologist but I have to say I am a little confused. Firstly, in a democracy isn't everybody entitled to freedom of believe (and expression)? Regardless of whether or not the majority agree. Secondly, what the hell is an IT column doing giving this much space to a religious debate. Just my two pence worth.

Freedom of Religion is guaranteed under the constitution of the United States of America, which is one of the things that makes me proud to BE American.

The point that eludes many in this protest is that Anonymous is not denying, debating, or trying to (intentionally) insult the beliefs of Scientologists. What they ARE protesting is the illegal actions of the Church of Scientology. The illegal tax exempt status, the violations of human rights, their extremely litigious nature, their flat out criminal harassment and terrorization of their critics and former members.

Freedom of believe is absolute and can never, should never, and god willing will never been hindered. Freedom of action on the other hand, must fall within the laws of a free and democratic society.

If we allowed freedom of action to be covered by freedom of religion, we'd open ourselves up to the potential for another Crusade, Jihadists would be able to perpetuate all sorts of crimes without fear of reprisal, and the Church of Scientology would be allowed to continue their criminal, mafia like infrastructure without answering for their crimes.

The reason this has appeared in an IT column is that this battle began on the internet. Anonymous is coordinating this entirely online. Spreading the information of Scientology online. It's a virtual battle made real and quite frankly that's the astounding fact. Scientology's actions to silence dissent has awoken the fury of those on the internet who hold freedom of speech and information most dear. And quite frankly, they are pissed.

Scientology can't be reformed so it is being dismantled. Couldn't happen to a nicer criminal enterprise.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

The CoS might be considered a 'religion' by U.S. law, but the public is slowly growing to know the truth. Scientology is a cult. No one should have to pay huge sums of money to learn the tenets of a religion. Buddhism...free. Judaism...free. Christianity...free. Paganism...free. Scientology...$360,000 or more. (look it up if you don't believe me.)

And the 'fair game' policy? It goes something like, 'any enemy of Scientology may be tricked, sued, lied to, or destroyed.' Does that sound like a loving religion that YOU want to be a part of?

The 'disconnect' policy. The CoS terms all critics of it's 'religion' as Supressive Persons, or SPs. They encourage members of the church to cease all contact with friends and family members who are NOT Scientologists. Worried parenst or children might not have contact with Scientologist family members for YEARS because of this.

I'll say it again...does this sound like a religion you want to be a part of? Does this sound like a 'religion' at all?

Scientology is under fire for good reason. Their history of abuse, murder, harassment, stalking, slander, tax evasion, espionage, and suppression of free speach has understandably placed them in the crosshairs of their worst enemy - the internet.

So hey, when does any of this abuse, murder, harassment, stalking, slander, tax evasion, espionage, and suppression of free "speach" (as you so charmingly spell it) actually get acknowledged by the U.S. Justice Department? And I'm talking about RIGHT NOW, THIS YEAR, not old outdated stuff like Lisa McWhoever and Operation Whatever.

The anti-Scn crackpots have been bleating that congressional investigations of the Church are coming "any day now" for DECADES. And it never happens. That's because there's no wrongdoing to investigate.

And don't fire back with "oh yeah? look here at this website some schmuck made" because I don't care about websites, they're not reality and any chimp can make one that says anything.

You want to show me something real, show me a current investigation of Scientology by the U.S. Congress or the FBI.

Oh, slackdobbs, you little apologist. Running around the web making the same damn post over and over again. You want stuff from right now and this year? Martine Boublil, held captive by Scilons in Sardinia. Investigations ongoing. That's from this MONTH. (http://www.rue89.com/2008/03/18/scientologie-les-dessous-de-laffaire-martine-boublil) That's one. A US federal court is probing into why the IRS gave Scientology tax benefits that other religions don't have. (http://www.nysun.com/article/70957) That's two. Belgium prepares a massive case against Scientology; they started in September 2007, which is not quite this year as per your specifications, but certainly did happen within the last twelve months. They intend to prosecute in 2008. (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/04/Worldandnation/Belgium_builds_case_a.shtml) That's three.

Would you like to hear more? Of course not, eh? Because you won't listen to a word I'll say, even if I provide all the evidence in the world. You won't even bother defending your statements, because L Ron said to attack and always attack. So that's how it goes. And oh, by the way? Just because something happened a while ago doesn't mean it becomes irrelevant. Lisa McPherson's death is still on Scientology's hands, and the deaths of many other people besides.

Just because the U.S. feds haven't come around to it yet doesn't mean Scientology is innocent. We fight to make them aware. It'll happen, sooner or later. Mark my words, it'll happen.

Human rights atrocities of the Scientology Cult are well known and documented, a good summary is here:
http://truthtopplestyranny.blogspot.com

How can they deny it when there are court records and police files, ongoing investigations in France, Germany, consideration of charges being laid in Belgium, convictions in Canada, US, and many other countries? This is obviously not a benign organization.

So much for who(?) throttles free speech and then virulently attacks critics, anonymous.

I just shake my head at the phenomenon that anyone who says anything logical, calming or even halfway law-abiding about the anonymous attacks on scientology must "of course" be a scientology pawn or "little apologist" like the insults above.

Must we all join anonymous - and clap and stomp in unison on one and three - or be thought of as followers of Hubbard?

Maybe I'll come back tomorrow to see what names you've called me. I'm sure all the net cowers before your helium-filled self-importance.

Sorry, I'm a little to contrary to be bullied by you guys. But then...I'm not a reporter.

well, I am a reporter. I don't feel bullied. I'm enjoying the sci vs anti-sci fight, purely from a spectator's point of view.

the sci vs anti-sci battle has been going on a looong time, but now it's moved to the web and tools like Wikis. that's the IT angle.

what I want to know is, where are those free 'psychopharmaceuticals' that "curioser" says I should be getting?

and where's the $5 Ike promised me?

come on people, pay up.

peace out.

- rxc

gargoyle: I'd be a lot more impressed by slackdobbs's answers if I hadn't seen him in other articles regarding Scientology, consistently attacking with the same arguments. I'd be a lot more impressed if I didn't already KNOW that Scientology sends some few members out to do exactly that, defend Scientology on the web by constantly attacking anyone who speaks out against it. And I'd be a lot more impressed if, as you said, his answers were actually logical or calm, instead of being aggressive and...not particularly logical, no. What, they're not guilty just because they haven't been charged in recent memory? How does THAT work?

I invite you to take a gander at tearing down MY arguments. Go on, do it. Then we can talk.

i dont give a fuck about whether scientolgy is good or bad and anyone who does has way to much time on their hands

Once I lived in these apartments next to a strip shopping center! A scientology shop opened up!
I would hear horrible groans and screams coming from that shop! I mean yelling and screaming like they were torturing somebody!

What is worse is some of the fringe Mormon sects!

Believe it or not there was once an Episcopal cult in Colorado. I got the creeps listening to a man tell about how the cult had removed his family from society!

anonymous (the one just above this post), your comment displays the biggest reason for our problems today - there are too many people who "don't care". We should be caring for all of those who share this planet with us. More and more, those who defend those who are, or have become, unable to defend themselves are attacked for caring. Critics of CoS, defenders of the unborn, etc.

I was approached in the early 70s by someone on the street who was recruiting for the CoS while I was home on leave during my service in the Navy. I was curious so went with them to see what this was all about. The first thing I generally ask about anything that calls itself a "religion", is whether it is inward- or outward-focused. Inward-focused is faulty because we are not perfect. Mankind has managed to prove this time after time after time. We can only find the "perfection" that CoS pretends to offer if we look beyond ourselves.

My personal barometer, then as well as now, is how it regards the Bible and any references to Jesus. They made reference to neither of these. Once I realized that they were building on a faulty platform, I walked out and never did get involved with them. Sounds like I made the correct choice.

I agree with your concerns Landon. Scientology has a shocking record of human rights abuses, kidnapping, harassment, crimes against the government and causing deaths. In January this year, Martine Boublil was rescued by Italian Police, because she had been kidnapped and imprisoned by 4 Scientologists. Luckily the Scientologists have been arrested.
I suggest anyone interested in the crimes read more at http://truthtopplestyranny.blogspot.com

My son was briefly associated with CoS many years ago when we was living with us but quickly saw the light and withdrew. For over 15 years, they still phone our home looking for him even though they have been told repeatedly that he is no longer interested. If he is one of those that CoS continues to count as a member of Cos, then I can easily understand how CoS is able to quote inflated lies about their membership numbers.

Let's address your one point of real concern; the others are maybes and TBDs.

The Martine Boublil matter is well settled that it was one nutty family's idiocies and had nothing to do with the Church. (I personally hope--IF guilt is proven in a fair court--that they put the SOBs in the hoosegow.)

Did it ever occur to you that one reason we get PO'd and respond with antagonism is that we are attacked with such hatred, personal prejudice and endangerment of our wives, children, businesses and livelihoods?

Are we supposed to sit calmly by and beatifically endure two decades of screaming and emotional calumny? I try.

But I could do it better if, in the future, you would please ensure that EVERY family drama across Europe and the Americas--Catholic, Baptist, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu--receives equal publicity, pre-judgment and hate--as you have done for us in the Martine Boublil case.

Next, can we expect you'll blame all religions for their individuals' actions--as you do Scientologists?

Will you comb court records for business and domestic suits, check who belongs to which religion, email the news to reporters and calumnists, and unfavorably portray and publish a Methodist or Daoist as THE undeniably guilty party--as you do us?

Let's document abusive tactics. Anti-Scientologists have endangered Scientologists' families since 1999 by publishing names, business names, home/business addresses, email addresses and phone numbers of Scientology families. (That resulted in months of my receiving 1,000+ daily spams, thanks to your blameless team.)

Is it fair play to link hundreds of Scientologists' businesses to a page entitled "Scientology Crime Syndicate?" hoping to cost them income when prospects look them up on the Web, and thus harm them and their families?

They committed no offense, btw, beyond being Scientologists. But that's apparently sufficient.

How about your team's tampering in federal legal matters and seeking to financially ruin families by prejudicing judges and juries against Scientologists victimized by Reed Slatkin?

Anti-Scientologists built (and still maintain) a Web site that publishes--complete with insulting remarks--a long list of which debtors and creditors are Scientologists.

How about being selectively soft on crime so that any time anyone breaches a Scientology copyright, aims a botnet attack at Church sites, sends white powder to our churches, and emails and phones in several thousand death threats--you don't mind at all?

Federal crimes are just merry pranks as long as the victims are Scientologists. Look up the definition of "terror" if you want to know how Church-members felt when they were pulled out of classes and counseling because of white powder in the mails.

Then there are the super-crazies who scream that we Scientologist orchestrated the 10,000 electronic attacks to paint ourselves as victims.

But you don't mind because, after all, Scientologists have no rights. We aren't equal before the law. We are--as the German newspaper Der Spiegel portrayed us--insects.

Anybody who attacks us must be supported as infallibly accurate in all assertions, above probing questioning, noble and well-intentioned, unmotivated by money or fame, and one heck of a good guy, right?

What I would hope to see from detractors is:
- No rushes to judgment
- Deal in documentable facts not generalities. Phrases akin to "A long history of beheadings in Scientology churches" aren't exactly a wise basis upon which to dialog.
- Less purposefully prejudicial and insulting word choice (e.g., cult, sect, secret pseudo-religion, etc.)
- Cease bullying tactics that endanger livelihoods and families whose only offense is to have seen benefit from Scientology
- Police your ranks for the crazies and the criminals. Rein them in by turning them in.
- Treat Scientology as you would any other religion. In the American South, newspapers used to write: "Joseph Evans, a Negro, was seen..." Today, it's "Claude Boublil, a Scientologist..." We don't know if Claude is guilty, but that tactic viciously smears thousands of innocents.

Does any writer or blogger today EVER write, "Tony Ciroli, a Catholic..." or "Billy Ledbetter, a born-again Christian..."?

Nor should they ever. But it's SOP in covering Scientologists.

I'll bet even money we pull out of the China olympics!

I was an Episcopalian but have found the E-Church to be dead!

So is the catholic church! The RC-church now is obssessed with little things! Marching around in halloween costumes!

The fundamentalists have damaged christianity (if that is possible)!

http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=866

no wonder people are trying weird stuff!

You call the 'crimes' against Scientologists 'terror'.

terrorism (noun)
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

This is what the CoS does to its critics and members who question or speak out against the Church policies. This isn't just a wild rant, this is proven in Courts of law in multiple cases, and well documented.

The DOS attacks on the website by Anonymous were short lived. Thanks to the guiding words of Mark Bunker shortly after they began, Anonymous as a whole has denounced these tactics and taken the stance of a peaceful protest. What has the church done in response to these peaceful protests? Produced false bomb threats on youtube, gone to court to try and flat out deny peoples right to free speech and assembly in Clearwater, gotten the most corrupt sheriffs department in the country to unlawfully arrest members at a peaceful protest (Dekalb County), harassed members at work/home/school for participating in these protests, and quite frankly scared the hell out of everyone involved.

If there's any doubt to the harassment protestors have to endure, read this article of a first hand account.
http://laist.com/2008/03/23/church_of_scien.php

I would love to be able to treat Scientology as a religion, but as it stands it's litigious nature, it's blantant and numerous human rights violations, and it's practice of misinformation cannot be tolerated in a just society.

Stop lying. That's all I ask.

Stop misleading people about your motives. That's all I ask.

Allow people who commit egregious crimes within the church to be brought to justice. That's all I ask.

We are Legion.

Gargoyle, comparisons of entities must be by their actions and not by their name. A religion is not a religion just because they say they are any more than Tupperware could claim to be a sports franchise.

The only proclaimed "religion" (other than CoS) that harasses, alienates, and kills people for leaving or disagreeing with them is radical Islam. No other religion does this, so any comparison of CoS to Catholicism, Judaism, Protestantism, or any other mainstream religion, has no validity.

People are changing religions all the time and, except for CoS, it's a pretty quiet and uneventful transition. I myself was born and raised a catholic and became Lutheran in my late 40s. I have had absolutely no harassment from the Catholic church and still maintain relationships with all of the Catholics that were in my life before.

How does this compare with CoS? There is no similarity at all.

CountessK
Here's a true accusation ....
With all the money and supposive increadible abilities of scientology and scientology based technology to cure society’s ills (ie narconon, criminon) CoS can't produce a single independent study that verifies any of these claims

All the CoS can produce is studies by scientologists about how great is scientology ??????????????????????????

"I'll bet even money we pull out of the China olympics!"

They are not the "China" Olympics.

Lunatic cults and dopey religions have existed for millenia.. They take advantage of the mentally weak and vulnerable in order to profit from it, be that fiscally or in terms of power and prestige. Hell, mainline Christianity has been doing it for 2,000 years now, and nobody's really screaming about them...

Scientology is a non-issue. It's mere existance is Darwinism in action. The mentally crippled will continue to flock to them just the same they do to all the rest until one day the stupidity builds to critcal mass and blows itself to hell, taking a good number of the reject members with it.

If somebody wants to become subservient to a fake religion made up by a sci-fi author for profit, let em. It's doing no more harm than most versions of "fundamentalist" or "evangelical" christianity does.. and when you get down to sheer numbers and political influence.. A case could be argued that it does considerably less.

As a Scientologist, I once considered these protests to be the hubris of youth, misdirected by the seedy side of an internet culture. But now I know better.

After reading the information gathered some anti-Scientology sites I now understand why they consider the Church to be an evil tyrannical organization that fleeces it's parishoners. If it weren't for what this little campaign has turned me onto, I would just be another sad commentator on the, I am sorry to say, gullibility of the people of my Church. However, this organization has taken on a much brighter side no matter what is professed by some of those in my Church.

I was interested in finding out where some of these kids got their info so I visited the sites including the partyvan site where their "organization" started from. I must say I was impressed at the profound and thoughtful overtones of the discussion boards. Most were actively calling for peaceful, law abiding behavior at the protests, and they swiftly rejected any ridiculous calls for burning things, overturning cars, etc. In this age where we as Americans are being constantly reminded of how insecure our way of life is in the world. Where we seem to have lost some of the sanctity of personal freedom and the joy of pursuit of our way of life as we see fit, this campaign seems to be exactly what Scientology and our country needs, right now! These individuals know the Church is involved in some nefarious activity, and they have been very active in gathering any evidence of it, which they have promptly given to authorities.

I have seen proof that the Church is fleecing people for profit and run as a pyramid scheme type of business, and I encourage everyone to contact the IRS, your representatives in Congress, and all other authorities and bring them your claims.

Now I clearly understand that what the spokespeople of the Church of Scientology are doing is inciting malice and prejudice. Make no mistake not all in Scientology are the same and some probably just don't know what they are doing. However, they are some pretty nasty characters in there, I have seen it.

It is unfortunate that the leaders of Scientology feed off of our youth to pursue their personal agendas of acquiring wealth and power.

Quite despicable really.